Indiana University Oral History Project- Bob Rusk

[The Big Ben]

Hi:

I found some interesting reading in my travels.

The International Tuba-Euphonium Association interviewed Robert Rusk in May of 2000 as a part of the Indiana University Tuba-Euphonium Oral History Project.

Bob talks about his studies with Bill Bell and Arnold Jacobs as well as other tuba personalities. He talks some about horns and how he came to be known as a person who would cut old American horns to CC tubas for orchestral use.

I found it interesting.

<link>

Jeff "Reading is Good" Benedict

[windshieldbug]

[TonyZ]

There are many of these histories available on the ITEA website. You have to be a member to see them, but they are well done. Kudos to Carole Nowicke for her work to get those done. You can read about Gary Tirey, Paul Bierley, Paul Droste, Abe Torchinsky, Sam Green, and many others!!!

[The Big Ben]

Hi:

I found some interesting reading in my travels.

Dennis Askew, president of the ITBA, has asked for me to take this down so I will. I found it through a Google search and Dennis has informed me that only members were supposed to be able to access it.

Sorry.

Jeff "Hat in hand" Benedict

[BVD Press]

Speaking of oral history, check this out:

http://www.yale.edu/oham

Very cool stuff!

[TonyZ]

Speaking of oral history, check this out:

http://www.yale.edu/oham

Very cool stuff!

What a great resource! Thanks, Bryan!

[Barney]

Hi:

I found some interesting reading in my travels.

Dennis Askew, president of the ITBA, has asked for me to take this down so I will. I found it through a Google search and Dennis has informed me that only members were supposed to be able to access it.

Sorry.

Jeff "Hat in hand" Benedict

Another victory for the pedagogical mafia!

[lgb&dtuba]

Hi:

I found some interesting reading in my travels.

Dennis Askew, president of the ITBA, has asked for me to take this down so I will. I found it through a Google search and Dennis has informed me that only members were supposed to be able to access it.

Sorry.

Jeff "Hat in hand" Benedict

So, they didn't have it properly secured and blocked from non-member view and instead of just quietly fixing it properly they hassled you? If they'd fixed it it wouldn't matter whether someone had a link to it or not.

Put your hat back on your head.

[TonyZ]

Another victory for the pedagogical mafia!

Intellectual property is just that. Property. If you want it, join the group! ITEA is very involved in pedagogy. If you belong, all of those things are available to you, including performance materials and all of the histories. Don't get angry at an organization for not giving you their things!

[lgb&dtuba]

Another victory for the pedagogical mafia!

Intellectual property is just that. Property. If you want it, join the group! ITEA is very involved in pedagogy. If you belong, all of those things are available to you, including performance materials and all of the histories. Don't get angry at an organization for not giving you their things!

I think the point really is that they did not properly secure their members only section. And then objected that a non-member linked to it and non-members were then reading the content. By not securing it properly the content was, in fact, available to the general public just like any other web content. And no one following a direct link to the content from google or any other source would even be aware necessarily that it was in a members only intended section of their web site. No one had to hack their site to see this info.

What they should have done was simply fix the problem on their end so that non-members couldn't get into that section of their web site.

I didn't see anyone here trying to make the case that ITEA had any obligation at all to make that info available to non-members.

[dwaskew]

Yes, there was a hole in our system. I didn't know about it, and I did thank the original poster for pointing this out. I asked him to take down the article, since he had placed it on another site, and it clearly had "copyright, International Tuba Euphonium Association" on the cover page of the article. We have since plugged the gap. I don't think what I did was "hassling", but perhaps it could be interpreted that way.

[windshieldbug]

It doesn't look like it was intentional, was taken down quickly when asked, and actually demonstrated a hole.

'nuf said.

[TonyZ]

Another victory for the pedagogical mafia!

I didn't see anyone here trying to make the case that ITEA had any obligation at all to make that info available to non-members.

"Pedagogical Mafia" does indeed imply that.

[lgb&dtuba]

Yes, there was a hole in our system. I didn't know about it, and I did thank the original poster for pointing this out. I asked him to take down the article, since he had placed it on another site, and it clearly had "copyright, International Tuba Euphonium Association" on the cover page of the article. We have since plugged the gap. I don't think what I did was "hassling", but perhaps it could be interpreted that way.

Please clarify. Did the original poster actually copy the content to another server or simply provide a link to your server? That is a very important distinction. What was posted here was a hyperlink (like the one below). See:

http://www.bc.edu/bc_org/avp/law/st_org ... 40401.html

That's by no means an exhaustive search on hyperlinking and may or may not be the latest information, but according to it providing a link to your page would NOT be a copyright infringement (in the US). If hyperlinking constituted copyright infringement then most, if not all, web sites would be guilty today. In fact, linking to that article would be a violation (I'll take my chances).

If what you were objecting to was a hyperlink to your site, then I don't believe you had a legal leg to stand on. But that's just my opinion and I could change it pretty quick if someone provides information showing otherwise.

Copying the content to another site would be an entirely different matter, and demanding that it be removed would be proper and necessary.

You've closed the hole now in any case.

[TubaRay]

What they should have done was simply fix the problem on their end so that non-members couldn't get into that section of their web site.

I didn't see anyone here trying to make the case that ITEA had any obligation at all to make that info available to non-members.

This states the case very clearly, in my opinion.

[windshieldbug]

Location: Sitting in the back row, coughing during horn solos...

That'll teach you to shake hands with a viola (and then wipe off your mouthpiece!)

[lgb&dtuba]

Okay. Everyone step away from the computer. Take a deep breath.

We all know that the info was NOT for non-members.

We all know that the info was NOT accessed in any sort of malicious manner.

Let us all now shut up and talk about other stuff. This whole line of conversation is REALLY stupid – BOTH sides of the argument are meaningless. If you have any of the material (which is copyrighted, BTW) just get rid of it. If you are soooooo intrigued by it then join ITEA and get it as the benefit of membership that it is intended to be. That is all. Everyone go home and do your homework and chores and watch some freaking television for an evening. We have achieved a minor euphonium and tuba community meltdown today over something that is really silly.

Bye, y'all!

In this case you may be missing something here. First, I'm not even close to meltdown. Just discussing an interesting legal point. And that point is relevent beyond this thread. It may seem irrelevent to you. You're entitled to your opinion. Not interested in this thread? Don't read it.

We all use hyperlinks on this forum. If using them is illegal, then we're all vulnerable to someone showing up and demanding that we remove them. Even you, Wade. In fact, if you Google DMCA you'll see a disturbing trend in big business using the DMCA takedown notice to bully others into removing various hyperlinks. Dig a little deeper, especially DMCA and Youtube and you'll see instances where people have fought back against takedown notices and won because they were willing to go to the trouble against the bullies.

I could care less about ITEA per se. Not a member. Not interested in becoming a member. Not my thing. Have nothing against them, either. But I am interested in what I see as an attempt to bully or intimidate someone into removing a perfectly legal hyperlink on this forum.

I do think that was something that probably would not have been handled that way if the legalities were understood, by the way. And therefore isn't so much about ITEA (to me) as it is about the general case of someone showing up here demanding that we remove hyperlinks to their web site.

Maybe next time this happens no one will be intimidated into removing their link.

[MartyNeilan]

You've closed the hole now in any case.

Not completely...
(Putting on IT hat)
The same google search can still be performed, bringing up the same links to PDF files - which are now closed.
HOWEVER, Google also has the option to "open as html" which opens an html conversion stored on Google's servers. However long they maintain that cache remains to be seen.

[dwaskew]

Good Grief.

I'm 99.9% positive the original poster had placed the file on another webpage, but I can't find in my cache where that page was. Therefore, I have no proof. I'm not upset about the fact that it happened, and as I said before, I actually thanked him for pointing this hole out. I really don't think I would've contacted him if the link had only gone to the ITEA site.
We're not in the business of being mafioso types, believe it or not--however, we are an association that has members and we do provide certain things for our members, and I, as current president, have certain responsibilities to our membership. I was acting from that standpoint, nothing else.

[The Big Ben]

OK, fellas:

Chain of events:

1. I did Google search on "Rusk tuba". Came up with Rusk article, DLed it, said "Cool! Gonna share it!"

2. Saw that it was copyrighted but there was no "You must need permission" notice on the article. I wasn't going to change it or charge for it so I ULed it to a server I run to make it easier for all and to save bandwidth on someone else's server.

3. I posted on TubeNet and a few hours later, was asked to take it down and did so.

4. I posted on TubeNet the reason why I was taking the link off TubeNet and removed the article from my server. It's gone- try http://angus.csd49.org/tuba/RobertRusk.pdf to see for yourself.

Let's let it go, eh?

Jeff