alexander tubas

[thedeep42]

i recently tried out an alexander F tuba and the sound and feel was amazing. it was a few decades old and had been fixed up. anyone else have experience with these? i understand alex tubas have a history of being kinda weird to play though with a great sound. does anyone have any ideas for how to find one? possibly to fix up. am i chasing rainbows? i'd be looking seriously at the european market as i'll be around there for awhile.

if only there was an online forum for families of peacefully-deceased old tuba players who have just discovered the old horn in the attic, it's in great shape and it probably plays good, make an offer etc... anyway, since i haven't found that yet, any help you can give would be great! thanks!

[eupher61]

Ron Bishop in Cleveland. Most, if not all of the recordings he did were on his Alex (not sure what he used for an F). There's a Bartok "Concerto for Orchestra" with Dohknanyi (I know, I butchered that name...) from the mid 80s, I think, that's killer.
But anything, certainly CC pieces, from early 70s to when, 2005??? with Cleveland will be good examples.

Great horn, impossible to play in tune unless you had Ron's skill with his main slide kicker.

[bisontuba]

Hi-
Old Boston Symphony recordings with Chester are amazing--he is playing his Alex CC-listen to Leinsdorf Prokofiev R & J, Wagner Overtures, Steinberg Hindemith pieces, Planets (Chester uses his F on the Mars tenor tuba solos!!) etc.
Regards-
mark
jonestuba@juno.com

[Jeffrey Hicks]

Don't forget all the Telarc recordings that Michael Thornton and Cincinnati Symphony have done.

[MackBrass]

I have probably owned 10 or 12 over the years and have played many more Alex 163 CC's in that time. There have been only two horns that have really raised my eyebrows as far as pitch goes. The first horn was sold by Wichita Band Company about two years ago, they had it on ebay several times. This horn needed a lot of work and I felt as though their price was too high, because of that I passed on buying it. Other than the work needed to get it up to speed this horn was hands down the very best in-tune playing Alex on the planet, whom ever bought it got a good one. There was no problem playing first line d with 1st valve, open g’s were on the money and all other fingerings were spot on. Needless to say there was no need for alternate fingerings. It was a difficult decision to not buy the horn but I was also looking at another at the time that played just as well. Buy the way, no tuning slides were cut down on this one.

The other horn I was looking at the same time and did buy was from Tim Buzzbee. This was a horn that Oberloh overhauled a few years ago. http://www.oberloh.com/sales/tubas.htm scroll down about 3/4’s of the page and you will see it. When I played it I was once again blown away by the great intonation. No alternate fingerings needed and the craftsmanship on the overhaul was the best I had ever seen, like new. The only thing I had to do to the horn was lower the lead-pipe and I changed the linkages to metal uniball rod-ends. It’s a shame I don’t play anymore, because this horn needs to get played.

The few new Alexander CC 163 models that I have played seem to have been great horns all around to include the intonation. If you want to drop 10k on one you will not be disappointed. If you have the patience of a saint, then it may take 20 years to find an old one that you will be 100 satisfied with.

Alexanders are in my opinion what a tuba should sound like and once you play one for any length of time you will always find yourself going back to it no matter what else you may own. Even if you wind up buying a horn that is not so great and needs a lot of work to play it they are worth it in the long run. The intonation issues will no doubt make your ear work and will aid in the development of a young musician if they really apply themselves.

As far as the Alex F tubas go, if you can find one for sale, get it and buy it. The F tubas don’t have any intonations issues outside that of any other F tuba on the market, these were designed very well.

[Alex C]

As a former Alexander 163 owner, I hate to interrupt the love fest. I have played 3 Alexander F tubas and never considered buying any of them for a minute. One was a six valve, the other two were four valve. In all cases the lower register was anywhere from bad to unmanagable.

I will say that Karl Hovey seems to have manged quite well on his Alex F for many years. I don't know if he still plays it but I think he made a recording with the band's quintet with it. But I wonder, would Karl recommend his students buy an Alexander F?

There are so many better F tubas being made today that I would encourage anyone interested to see what the successful European tubists are using today and look in that direction, instead of back 5 decades.

[Tom]

There have been only two horns that have really raised my eyebrows as far as pitch goes. The first horn was sold by Wichita Band Company about two years ago, they had it on ebay several times. This horn needed a lot of work and I felt as though their price was too high, because of that I passed on buying it. Other than the work needed to get it up to speed this horn was hands down the very best in-tune playing Alex on the planet, whom ever bought it got a good one. There was no problem playing first line d with 1st valve, open g’s were on the money and all other fingerings were spot on. Needless to say there was no need for alternate fingerings. It was a difficult decision to not buy the horn but I was also looking at another at the time that played just as well. Buy the way, no tuning slides were cut down on this one.

That's my Alexander 163!

Your assessment of it seems correct to me.

I bought it from Wichita Band a year and a half or so ago after seeing it run on ebay several times.

I drove there, spent the afternoon playing it, and despite it needing a lot of work, I immediately knew it was something special.

It plays in tune with standard CC tuba fingerings and has the sound.

Their price was a bit steep, but...

I took it home and had all of the work done on it including a complete rebuild of the valve set (4 rotors), refit of the main slide (it leaked fairly badly when I got it), removal of the tuning rod (which contributed greatly to the loose main slide) and monster weight valve caps, update of the linkage, removal of dents, and a good chem cleaning.

You are correct in saying that the slides have never been trimmed and I would add that the leadpipe (larger than modern "Euro" but not Alex's jumbo size) is original as well

And, as an aside...

Through TubeNet and getting to know people over the years, I have been able to track its ownership since new. At one time it was owned by Richard Murrow and played in the Dallas Wind Symphony alongside Alex Cauthen (Alex C here on tubenet) on his Alexander 163. I am not sure if the pair of Alexanders ever were recorded with the DWS and would love to know if they were.

It could still use a little work to make it "perfect," but its in excellent condition as is and is 100% playable. It really is a special tuba and it would take a lot for me to part with it now.

At Wichita Band:

[Rick Denney]

...I always hear how former Alexander players sell of their old beauties for a modern, shiny horn with a better scale. They nearly always lament having sold it. Even if it is not getting used you develop an attachment to the dang thing from all of the work you did to get it under control. And that sound you made on it will inform your tone on all subsequent tubas you own....

Mike tells the story that he had an opportunity to play (and possibly repurchase) his old Alex a few years back. He tried it at a rehearsal at Powell Hall, and after a few minutes put it down and went back to his Yorkbrunner. He made two observations:

1. It was just too much work to make the Alex do what needed to be done, and

2. He was afraid the Maestro would like it.

When I took the first of my few lessons with him, he still had the Alex and played it for me during the lesson. THAT made a big impression, I can tell you. At that time, he said the Alex would do anything, but YOU, as the player, had to make it happen. At that time, he said that the hardest thing about the switch to the Yorkbrunner was learning to relax and let the horn do the work.

I have to say that as much as his Alex sound got under my skin, I preferred his Yorkbrunner sound from the time I first heard it. It had a sweetness and presence to it that was more inviting than the formidable Alex sound. I have no doubt that his sound on the Yorkbrunner was informed by his Alex experience, and on both he still sounded uniquely like Mike. But the difference was still palpable. That has put the sound of the York-style instruments into my head all these years.

Rick "who hopes to one day understand the Alex mystique" Denney

[Tom]

Anyone interested in Alexander 163 CC tubas needs to make a trip to Baltimore Brass. They have more vintage Alexander CC tubas than I ever recall seeing for sale at the same time in the same place.

Their current offerings include 163 CC tubas in 4, 5, and 6 ( ) rotors.

The 5 valve model was Mike Thornton's Alexander he played for many years in Cincinnati and is the tuba you can hear on a multitude of recordings.

I just noticed that Baltimore Brass has added that the 4 valve model was David Bragunier's that he used for many years in the National Symphony.

In addition it makes me sad to see that The Elephant needs to part with his at some point.

It makes me wonder who is out there with gig playing primarily on an Alexander these days. I know Ted Cox in Oklahoma is and will never part with his nickel silver 163...anyone know any others? It seems that the list of former Alexander players is growing.

[thedeep42]

sadly, i'm looking for an F and i'm in europe. if anyone knows of any advertising sites or must contact people in germany or surrounding countries, that would be awesome.

[Tom]

Well, you could get a new Alexander F directly from Gebr. Alexander in Mainz.

Their website is http://www.musik-alexander.de/gebr_alex ... index.html

You might see about the possibility of contacting Michael Lind. He is the Alexander F tuba player. He, I believe, is in Sweden but might be able to give you some European leads on used Alexander F tubas.

[jonesbrass]

Well, you could get a new Alexander F directly from Gebr. Alexander in Mainz.

Their website is http://www.musik-alexander.de/gebr_alex ... index.html

You might see about the possibility of contacting Michael Lind. He is the Alexander F tuba player. He, I believe, is in Sweden but might be able to give you some European leads on used Alexander F tubas.

In addition to the above suggestion, I remember that Alexander carried used horns of theirs for sale from time to time. Might be worth checking out.

[MikeMason]

a couple years ago,custom music had 2 of them when I was looking.Might be worth a try.To add to the former Alex list, Matt Good also played one for a good while before his MW 2165/2265.

[ZNC Dandy]

Anyone interested in Alexander 163 CC tubas needs to make a trip to Baltimore Brass.
The 5 valve model was Mike Thornton's Alexander he played for many years in Cincinatti and is the tuba you can hear on a multitude of recordings.

That horn was formerly owned by me. I sold it to Mike Thornton. Before it came to live with me, it belonged to Ivan Hammond. It is a fantastic instrument. The intonation is amazing. Actually the most in tune tuba I have ever played or owned. I actually regret selling it very much. But i'm sure it was much happier with Mike. and it was a joy to hear what it could do in the hands of someone who knows how to wield it. If it wasn't for my 2155R Prototype, which I am absolutely enamored with, I would buy this horn again. It has the Alexander sound, but with lots more power. Someone please buy that Alexander!

[Tom]

To add to the former Alex list, Matt Good also played one for a good while before his MW 2165/2265.

Matt Good was (is) indeed an Alexander player. Although he owns a number of tubas and is now doing most of his orchestral CC playing on a 2265 (and formerly a great 2165), he kept his Alexander CC and occasionally plays it with the orchestra. I've seen him with an Alexander F (not his primary F tuba) in the DSO as well but I can't recall what the rep was he was using it on.

He is one of those players that sounds great on anything though.

[Ted Cox]

My very first tuba teacher, Harold Strand, (he played with the Phoenix Symphony many, many years before Dave Pack) played on a 6 valve Alex C from the 50's. A truly beautiful, well cared for instrument. His sound had a huge influence on me. I also had the good fortune to study with Michael Lind for a semester at Indiana University in the Spring semester of 1980. Hearing him live nearly every day that semester on his Alex F was also influencial. Of course, there are many other musicians like Chester Schmitz who I was also able to study with when I lived in Boston who's sound strongly influenced me. Dave Kirk is also one other.

The Alex I play on was built in 1964 and has 5 valves and is one of only 5 or 6 solid nickel-silver Alex's ever made. Michael Lind use to own a nickel-silver Alex F. I looked for many years for an Alex C and through an amazing coincedence, found the horn I own now. I almost had the chance to buy my horn back in 1974 for I believe $600. I paid $2,000 for it in 1992. I'm the fourth owner of my horn and it has nothing "wrong" with it except a few minor dents. (At 43 years of age, we all have a dent or two.) Originally, in 1964, a new Alex C cost $450, with a hard case. If you wanted to add a fifth or sixth valve, it cost an additional $45 for each valve. I still have the original case and mouthpiece.

I've been able to keep playing on my Alex for a lot of reasons. Some of those reasons are the quality and size of our new hall along with the size and quality of string instruments of our orchestra. The color of an Alex matches and blends with all the instruments of the orchestra. It's a complimentary color, especially with our bass trombonist who plays on an older Conn.
www.okcphilharmonic.com

Yes, there are a couple of notes that I wish were a bit better, but the trade off is well worth it. It's the sound I love and the sound I wish to make as an artist; my self-expression. In my opinion, there seems to be too much emphasis on how much a horn costs, how big it is, how loud it can play, etc. Too much ego and not enough art. And yes, someday I will part with my beloved Alex, after I quit playing. As Don Henley so eloquently wrote in one of his songs, hearses don't come with luggage racks.

Ted