Playing a piston tuba

[MaryAnn]

I went to a tuba/euph recital at the University of Arizona earlier this week.

Of course there were both rotary and piston tubas in the ensembles (small ensembles, quartets mostly.) It was notable that the people playing piston tubas went through all kinds of contortions with their hands/fingers to depress the pistons; fingers on top of each other, hand bent this way and that. Some of these were big guys, too. The people playing rotaries didn't have these contortions.....just the hand sitting there looking relaxed, no need to stack fingers or bend the hand in weird ways to depress the valves.

Exactly why I play rotary tubas. I still remember one guy whose hand was shoved so far over the valves that he was almost playing with his palm; exactly what I would have to do on a piston tuba, and I have weensy hands. I don't see how he would ever be able to play anything fast.


MA

[The Big Ben]

I'd like to give a rotary tuba a try. My horn is piston.

I've played both trumpet and french horn and preferred the rotaries on the horn. I seemed to be able to move them faster than I could move my pistons on the trumpet.

I admit that pushing the tuba pistons seems a little clunky at times. Partially, I suppose, from lack of experience. On some notes, I'm still trying to remember the fingerings and, especially 'down low' reading the note in bass clef and then making the connection to the fingering. (It's coming)

I notice many express preferences for piston vs. rotary and the manufacturers have tubas with both. Is this for ergonomic reasons (vis-a-vis Mary Ann's small hands) or for sound reasons or both? Do pistons and rotaries have a different sound on an otherwise similar horn?

Jeff "Asking questions" Benedict

[Tubaguy56]

Yes there is. Rotors tend to be found in Germany, because they can provide a very german sound. It's the reason so many people buy rotor F's even though all of them (save the firebird and the ones that are so big they sound like C's) have bad ranges in the Bb-D area just below the staff (more specifically that C though). The same thing applies for C tubas but without the hindering low range (part of the reason the PT-6 is so popular--->the sound).

Personally, I love pistons and have disdain for rotors. I think pistons slur better, and that they have the potential to go faster than rotors even though the distance is actually greater. My reasoning behind this is that many rotors seem to take too long on the bounce back, and, if you think about, you can't play any faster than the amount of time it takes that valve to pop back.

I play a big C tuba and find that I have no problems getting my fingers into a very relaxed position over the horn. However, in order to do this I removed the thumb ring so my hand could be very free with what I was doing and reposition itself appropriately. My C has unusually light and quick moving valves for a tuba of it's size, so I might be an exception to the rule as opposed to a standard.

[Donn]

Personally, I love pistons and have disdain for rotors. I think pistons slur better, and that they have the potential to go faster than rotors even though the distance is actually greater. My reasoning behind this is that many rotors seem to take too long on the bounce back, and, if you think about, you can't play any faster than the amount of time it takes that valve to pop back.

Do you tape your fingers to the piston caps, or do they also have to pop back on their own? I think for every slow rotor, there's probably a piston that comes back slow at an inconvenient moment - I know it has bugged the snot out of me.

For me, rotors have always had a sort of Rube Goldberg feel, but I have had only a couple piston setups with more than 3 valves. On the old Conn 4 valve BBb, I have to admit I can't hold down 2 and 4 with my finger over 3, as for B/E, because the ring finger just won't go up high enough. The Rube Goldberg rotor mechanism allows bore sizes in the valve section to be whatever you want and key travel to be whatever you want. That would seem to favor larger bores, so it's a good thing that pistons are popular these days, since it keeps bore size from from unlimited inflation.

[Wyvern]

Two reasons why I play rotary tubas: Reliability and comfort. After 30 years playing on pistons, when I first tried rotors, I knew they were for me - and have never looked back.

For speed - good well maintained rotors are as fast as pistons. The difference is I can rely on my rotors to work (have NOT let me down once in three years), while I lost faith in pistons after embarrassing sticks in more than one concert.

A pity most new tuba developments now seems to be piston. A rotary Baer, or Thor would be great!!!

Jonathan "who wonders what percentage of piston users have not suffered any valve sticking in the last three years?"

[josh wagner]

Practice

[pierso20]

I went to a tuba/euph recital at the University of Arizona earlier this week.

It was notable that the people playing piston tubas went through all kinds of contortions with their hands/fingers to depress the pistons; fingers on top of each other, hand bent this way and that. Some of these were big guys, too. The people playing rotaries didn't have these contortions.....just the hand sitting there looking relaxed, no need to stack fingers or bend the hand in weird ways to depress the valves.



MA

Rotary vs. Piston is very opinionated. I have played both for an equal amount of time, and for me, either one has its pro's and con's. For some people, pistons cause problems and for others, rotors can be more difficult to have even transfers.

Now.....I have noticed a lot of people playing pistons who will use multiple fingers on a piston...but that doesn't necessarily mean it is because the pistons are being difficult. Sometimes my fingers and hands do that, and usually it is merely because I am...well just doing it.

But I feel that hand contortions for ease of play is not only a piston thing. You have to remember too, that there are many different layouts for pistons and often the player has a horn that requires a spread that is too wide in the hand...which can lend to contortions....though, I remember having similar problems on 5 valve rotors as well...

so......it is all a game of preference.

[Mark]

Pistons are only better on silver-plated CC tubas with a funnel shaped mouthpiece made of stainless steel.

[Rick Denney]

Pistons are only better on silver-plated CC tubas with a funnel shaped mouthpiece made of stainless steel.

\

Wow and that is the most amature statement I have ever read in my life......sounds to me like you haven't played in a while....

Well, Mark, it looks like you got one. But remember: Catch and release in this lake.

Rick "wondering if Mark is an 'amature' raconteur" Denney

[OldsRecording]

HA HA HA HA HA! And I don't think you've heard any sarcasm in a while.

Sarcasm? HERE?? You're kidding, right?

[Uncle Buck]

Jonathan "who wonders what percentage of piston users have not suffered any valve sticking in the last three years?"

That's a great question - I think it's worth a new topic and a poll.

[Uncle Buck]

Well, Mark, it looks like you got one. But remember: Catch and release in this lake.

In fact, Mark seems to have caught one who's been lurking at the bottom of the lake for a while.

Good catch!!

[pierso20]

actually.....other than when I need more oil, my valves have not stuck once in the past 3 months....

I remember having some rotors that were unpleasant.....not to pick on them....

(I do however feel sorry for the tuba sitting next to me whose 1st valve sticks...daily???)

[tuba_hacker]

I'll take rotors. The first valve on my Weril is notorious for sticking. How come it's never the FOURTH valve?

[lgb&dtuba]

Rotors or pistons, if they are sticking then they need some attention. Get them to a proper repair person for cleaning and or lapping and then keep them properly lubricated and neither will stick.

[pierso20]

HA HA HA HA HA! And I don't think you've heard any sarcasm in a while.

yeah and it seems to me as if you haven't got any in a while fag

????

this is an open forum......let's represent ourselves better than that. Even if it was for sport.

[The Big Ben]

HA HA HA HA HA! And I don't think you've heard any sarcasm in a while.

yeah and it seems to me as if you haven't got any in a while fag

The Elephant is a bundle of burning sticks???? Or an English cigarette???? And what hasn't he had in a long period of time???? You must be much more specific in your elocution. Such speech leaves me sorely vexed. Oh, I am so confused.

Jeff "Sitting on the low three-legged stool" Benedict

[Rick Denney]

I'll take rotors. The first valve on my Weril is notorious for sticking. How come it's never the FOURTH valve?

Because the first valve is closest to your mouth.

Rick "thinking bits of dinner and reliable valves are mutually exclusive" Denney

[Rick Denney]

HA HA HA HA HA! And I don't think you've heard any sarcasm in a while.

yeah and it seems to me as if you haven't got any in a while fag

On second thought, Mark, go ahead and fry him up for dinner.

Rick "I'll take mine with tarter sauce" Denney

[eupher61]

...and grease is found in Greece, because it can provide a greasy sort of feel.

I beg to differ...grease is found in Turkey Chile. Is Mary Ann Hungary? I dunno, Alaska. Hey, MA, Hawaii??