B&S F tuba thoughts

[erictuba]

Hey, just wanted to see what everyone thought of the B&S PT-10 and PT-15 F tubas. Im starting to look around and strongly considering B&S. Let me know what you think

thanks!

[Chen]

They are very good F tubas. Capable of a robust sound. Many professional orchestral players play them. Enough said.

[Tom]

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[WoodSheddin]

Hey, just wanted to see what everyone thought of the B&S PT-10 and PT-15 F tubas. Im starting to look around and strongly considering B&S. Let me know what you think

thanks!

The PT-10 is the definition of an F tuba in my opinion.

The PT-15 is a slightly heavier PT-10.

I believe that the very best F tubas made are all made by German companies. This list would include B&S, Miraphone, Alexander, and Meinl Weston.

Willson and Hirsbrunner F tubas are good in their own right, but again, to my ears the PT-10 is the definition of an F tuba.

While Yamaha F tubas are among the easiest to honk on like a CC tuba, they don't have the same color of a PT-10 in most people's hands.

[WoodSheddin]

My experience is that they can sound awesome but are difficult tubas to play (in general and especially in the lower register) and, on some samples, intonation is questionable.

A German F tuba is no more difficult to play in the lower registers than a CC tuba. The motor actions required to play lower on a German F tuba is generally different than that of most CC tubas. If you try to pound on the lower range with the same brute force some might be accustomed to use on a large CC tuba than you will be less successful. More finesse is in order. To boil it all down, they play different and ya gotta learn the horn. Once you take the time to learn how to play it, the rewards are well worth it.

If you ever get a chance to hear a good German tubist playing on a German F tuba you will drop all assumptions that the horns are difficult to play big down low. I heard the Meinl Weston Tuba Quartet live a few times. At one stop they did a masterclass including come orchestral excerpts. Die Meistersinger and some Bruckner Symphonies on F tuba. Some of the biggest deepest sounds I have ever heard, regardless of instrument. It was amazing what you can do when you put in the time.

If ya want an F tuba which is more forgiving for someone who doesn't have time to practice as much as they like than the Yamaha F tubas are pretty popular.

[Wallace]

Don't overlook the Gronitz F's. I have a PF-125 (piston model) that I bought from Tony C. about 18 months ago. I feel that its the best F I've ever played. The low range is amazing. Traditional intonation issues issues are easily handled by the tri-tone 5th valve. I use CC fingerings + 5th valve for everything under low C. Intonation is great in all registers. Anyone who hasn't played one should check them out.

[Tom]

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[WoodSheddin]

I suppose it really isn't necessary to justify on a bbs why I play what play, nor is it really necessary for you to justify what you play because it all comes down to "different strokes for different folks."

Of course you are right. I was just voicing my opinion on which F's are my favorites. I have seen others, besides yourself, make the statement that German F's are "generally" difficult to play down low. I have never seen anyone experience difficulty playing a quality German F tuba who have invested the time to learn how to play them.

I have seen many many people at conferences who pick up an unfamiliar German F tuba and try to play it like a CC. They play for 5 minutes then put the horn down and proclaim it inferior to the Yamaha F sitting next to it because the Yamaha felt easier for them to get a decent sound out of the low end in the exhibit room. A German F tuba does not blow the exact same way as a Willson 5/4 CC tuba. It may take a few weeks to really figure the horn out and become comfortable with it.

Many Japanese products market themselves very well in showrooms. Their products are very consistent and in general can be trusted to get the job done effectivelly. I have seen this in products such as Sony, Honda, Yamaha, and others. Although the products might be easy to use, dependable, and typically fairly priced, I rarely find Japanese products exciting.

[Tom]

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[smurphius]

i used to know a tuba player who wasn't really all that great, but he was decent enough to get a gig every now and again around town. he once told me that it really shouldn't matter too much on the horn, as far as playing it well. obviously, the tone color as well as ease of playing are definite factors, but regardless of what horn and which set of those characteristics you're dealing with, a good tuba player should be able to make any horn sound great. after all, it all starts the same regardless of which horn it is. buzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

[Dylan King]

The Tubenet dude is absolutely right about German F tubas. I play Rudy Meinl 4/4 6 valve F and get such a warm, dark sound on it. I would never call my sound German. It's more on the lines of Califonia Dreamin', but I have yet to play an F tuba with such a comfortable center and such a smooth, focused velvet.

I bought the horn from Tommy Johnson who picked it up along with his Rudy cimbasso from some rich dentist who never played them. He was playing it in the studios for a while around 1991 and 1992, but told me that he didn't like those few notes in the low register that seem to be a problem on so many F tubas.

The horn does have a stuffiness, but you right about being able to learn to play that low register, which can still sound fantastic. There is an aggressiveness you can't acheive on those notes, but the fundamental is prominant and a "popping sound" is unimportant. The horn is so fit for Orchestral F tuba parts like Berlioz, but I did once perfom Die Meistersinger (if I could just spell it) on the Rudy F and had fantastic results. The low notes never seem to have a problem popping out while playing with a band or orchestra. For some reason when playing alone I notice it more.

As for B&S F tubas, I can tell you that Tommy Johnson played one for many years in the studios, but it was a Frankentuba. The low register was like the 822 Yamaha and it had that German feeling and sound. A quality I am looking for right now, having been thinking about buying an MW 45slp. OK back to Tommy. He put a Mirafone 187 bell on it. Actually I believe he may have tried a few different bells. But the Mirafone made it work best.

He brought that B&S Frankentuba to calls along with his silverplate Mirafone CC 188 until Yamaha sent him an 822 prototype. Not having lost a step in that sound and of course, unparalleled sight reading ability, but now getting up there in age, Tommy found the perfect mix of CC and F in that Yamaha 822. I bet he still keeps a bunch of horns in the back of his truck, but I think he almost exclusively plays on the Yamaha nowadays. The last time I saw him play the B&S Frakentuba was at a joint recital with Bill Booth at UCLA's Schoenberg Hall in 1992.

What a rare and blessed treat. He didn't miss a sixteenth rest, and the amazing part is, I don't think he praticed more than a few hours for the recital.

Jaws was recorded on a Mirafone CC tuba. Probably in one take.

http://pub16.bravenet.com/photocenter/a ... 1298322838

[tubacdk]

As for B&S F tubas, I can tell you that Tommy Johnson played one for many years in the studios, but it was a Frankentuba.He put a Mirafone 187 bell on it. Actually I believe he may have tried a few different bells. But the Mirafone made it work best.

I think he almost exclusively plays on the Yamaha nowadays. The last time I saw him play the B&S Frakentuba was at a joint recital with Bill Booth at UCLA's Schoenberg Hall in 1992.

I think the bell was from a 184 or 185. He sold that horn a couple years ago to Ben Stapp at UCLA, after he bought a Miraphone 181 6v GB. He had his YFB 822 converted into a "double tuba" by Robb Stewart a couple years ago, and I think he's using it for pretty much everything these days. Though he's using the 6/4 Gronitz CC for big stuff, I think.

-ck