My 'new' Cerveny Kaiser (horn dorn!)

[Wyvern]

Further to my previous post (viewtopic.php?t=23261), I have this evening played my 'new' Cerveny CBB701 in brass band for the first time.

It was well received. Everyone thought it really beautiful in its red brass and the conductor (an ex-BBb player himself) commented that the Cerveny had that special 'gruff' BBb bass sound which my Neptune does not (the CC's sound is more lyrical). Although very different from the usual brass band Besson, it seems to provide a good tonal substitute.

I got on pretty well playing it, providing an apparent satisfactory foundation, while not once getting the hand - something which pleased me as I was concerned a Kaiser BBb might be too big for the band.

I enjoyed playing it, but didn't half feel tired after two hours - it certainly takes the air and provided a good work out. I have found previously that playing my big Neptune improves the subsequent playing of my smaller tubas. I reckon the CBB701 will have the same effect on my Neptune playing which will seem that much easier after the wider bored Kaiser.

Here are some pictures of my new BIG baby!



I have done some comparison measurements with my B&S 6/4 Neptune which I thought interesting (* = my approx measurements):

Height: Neptune (N) 39" (99cm); Cerveny (C) 44" (112cm)
Valve Bore: N 19-21mm (graduated) ; C 21.2mm
*Top Bow circumference : N 8.25"; C 9"
*Small side bottom bow circumference: N 10.5"; C 11"
*Bell throat circumference: N 19.25"; C 19"
*Circumference 12" below bell opening: N 26.5"; C 25.25"
Bell diameter: N 520mm; C 500mm

The Cerveny is larger bore right up to the bottom bow when the Neptune expands at a greater rate to the bell which I think is apparent in the picture. Maybe that is the defining difference between a Kaiser tuba and a 6/4 BAT?



Being the red brass version, the CBB701 has nickel silver fittings throughout, including the valve casings. I understand nickel is the best material for rotary valves for long reliable service. These are really fast, smooth and quiet with their minibal linkage. One thing I found to look out for playing a lot is that water builds up in the dip of the lead pipe, so if I tip the tuba back vertical to put on its stand I get a wet arm, or lap!



Comparing the back of the CBB701 and Neptune, the arrangement of tubes is almost identical, which rather makes me think the two models share a common ancestor, although from different companies.



I hope you enjoy the pictures. My impression so far is that the Cerveny is a very good tuba - I am thrilled with it

[gregsundt]

...water builds up in the dip of the lead pipe, so if I tip the tuba back vertical to put on its stand I get a wet arm, or lap!

I got that from drooling at the pictures. Nice equipment!

Did you visit Kraslice when on your "plant tour" tour? How does the Cerveny compare with the big Rudys you tried?

[jeopardymaster]

That is a real beauty, Neptune. I had forgotten about the way mine used to pee on me -- that really brought back memories. For info, did you cull it from a large sample of horns?

I found, back in the 70's, a fairly wide range in terms of how this model horn would "slot in" to notes in the middle of the bass clef staff. Mine was the best, for me at least, of 8 or 9 sampled with Walter Sear. Played like a dream, and I still regret having sold it after only 8 years.

[ken k]

drool....

In order to get a sense of how bit it is, I would love to see a picture of you playing it.

ken k

[GC]

It looks great! How is its intonation? Have you played any in the pedal register? Is it difficult to play softly?

These were all issues for me with my old Cerveny 601.

I love big horns and would love to have one of those. I'd just have to have my lungs replaced with a bellows. A big one.

[jonesbrass]

Brilliant, Neptune. She's a beaut!!!

[Art Hovey]

How is the 4th-line open F? I used to have a Cerveny-Sear tuba that was very similar to yours; that note was very flat on mine.

[finnbogi]

Congratulations on this beautiful tuba!

[Wyvern]

How many stands do you have now Jonathan?

Enough!

Did you visit Kraslice when on your "plant tour" tour? How does the Cerveny compare with the big Rudys you tried?

No, I would like to visit Cerveny (and B&S) some time!

I reckon the Rudys have a more refined sound. The 5/4 BBb Rudy I tried was the best BBb I have ever played. That's one to get if I win the lottery

For info, did you cull it from a large sample of horns?

I selected the Cerveny after trying against a MW 25 and Fafner. The 25 did not have the sound I wanted, while the Fafner although I loved its sound, cost more than I was prepared to pay. The 701 although it looks new, is actually two years old. Apparently it was bought by some parents on holiday in the Czech Republic for their teenage son, but has been little played. The son is now going to university and has traded it in for an EEb as a more all-purpose tuba. This meant a real bargain for me!

In order to get a sense of how bit it is, I would love to see a picture of you playing it.

Here you go!

It looks great! How is its intonation? Have you played any in the pedal register? Is it difficult to play softly?

These were all issues for me with my old Cerveny 601.

I love big horns and would love to have one of those. I'd just have to have my lungs replaced with a bellows. A big one.

I find its intonation very good for a big tuba. Playing softly did not seem to present a problem - in one pp passage I could easily get under the Eb's. I tend to think piano playing is actually easier on big tubas.

No, my real problem, was producing sufficient air to produce a sustained fortissimo. It really sucks the air - I got light headed at one stage, but that is maybe me not yet used as to how to get the most out of it.

For the pedal register, I got down to G# (two octaves below the bass clef), with no more difficulty than I would expect.

How is the 4th-line open F?

About 20% sharp, but I can live with that, particularly as the music did not go above D# all the evening - BBb bass parts in brass bands in my experience rarely venture far from the basement.

[NickJones]

Wait until you have to play Partita ( Philip Sparke) , quick mute changes and Howard Snell's arrangement of "Entry of the Gods into Valhalla" up in the extreme upper register. or Harrison's Dream ( Peter Graham) just insane low register semi quaver work!!!!
good luck John

[TonyZ]

I loved my old Cerveny. The only things that bugged me initially were the cheap bumpers on the rocker arms. I think they are some sort of fusion of feta cheese and 3-day-old bubble gum.

Lovely instruments, both! Have much fun!

[tofu]

Nice horns indeed.

How sturdy are those tuba stands? I'd like to be able to leave the horn sitting in a stand when not being used but am worried about the tipping factor.

I also have a question in regards to the Neptune - the spit valves on the back of the horn - did you add them or is that the way the horn comes from the factory?

[Wyvern]

I use two sort of tuba stands, the K&M and M&M. The M&M hold the tuba higher, so the centre of gravity is higher. However, I have never had any concern about a tuba toppling over, although I confine their use to my home. The K&M stand is the better. There is a Standard and Kaiser size one. Those are what I always use out at gigs. Never has one let me down and I find I get far fewer dings. The bell being at the top, people walk around, never touching anything other than the bell rim. I think someone would have to run into the tuba to knock it over, but then they would do a lot of damage if it was on its bell in that case.

The spit valves on the 3rd and 4th Neptune slides are factory fitted. I do not know why, because they aren't needed. Water never collects in the 3rd valve loop and I can play all evening and get no more than a thimble of water out of the 4th. I would have them removed if it would not make a mess of the gold lacquer.

[OldsRecording]

Very pretty horn. I dig the red brass. Just a silly question, though. (also has to do with the 'Rotary BBb in Brass Band' thread) Do your section mates also play left-facing horns, and if not, is there an issue with smashing bells with the EEb player on your left?

[Peach]

The spit valves on the 3rd and 4th Neptune slides are factory fitted. I do not know why, because they aren't needed. Water never collects in the 3rd valve loop and I can play all evening and get no more than a thimble of water out of the 4th. I would have them removed if it would not make a mess of the gold lacquer.

I'd bet the 'water keys' are there to let you pull slides without any "pop". Instead of venting the valve, the slide is vented. I've seen this done before (usually with Amado) but never as a factory option.

My Neptune has straight slides btw...
MP

[Wyvern]

Very pretty horn. I dig the red brass. Just a silly question, though. (also has to do with the 'Rotary BBb in Brass Band' thread) Do your section mates also play left-facing horns, and if not, is there an issue with smashing bells with the EEb player on your left?

No, they play the usual Besson 3+1 EEb. However, there is only me on BBb, so I have room to leave a good gap to minimize the risk - or if not sit slightly back and at an angle to the EEb's, so my bell is actually pointing behind them at the percussionist. That actually works to improve my view of the conductor as well.

[Wyvern]

Jonathan, do you plan to use this for anything besides brass band (Prokofiev? )?

I do want to learn BBb fingerings for bass clef as I think that would be a useful skill. I could then use the Cerveny for wind band, or orchestra if BBb worked better than CC for the music, although I intend the Neptune to continue to be my main big orchestral tuba. I think the Neptune's more lyrical tone is generally better for orchestra.

[Wyvern]

I guess the next question is: what's next?

A tiny F? A tenor tuba? A cimbasso?

I think I have enough but will that stop me a tiny F is tempting!!!

[Wyvern]

At the time I got my 701 no gig bags were available in the UK, so I have been making do with a Fafner bag which was really too small. However I went over to MrTuba to collect the correct bag (in a nice grey/black two tone) yesterday.

One thing I have found I do not like about the Cerveny is wider spaced valve keys (than B&S or M-W) which cause me aches in my hand after playing a while. I had thought about putting coins on to reduce the spacing, but Mark Carter kindly bent the levers inwards so they are now comfortable.

Also since I got the Cerveny it has somehow sustained two dent. How I don't know, but that red brass must be soft. I was interested to watch Mark expertly get these out using magnetic dent remover and balls. He did this work for no charge, so thanks Mark!

[Norm in Bellevue]

Has anyone played the CC version of this Kaiser ? These Cerveny Kaisers really catch my eye, especially the price!

Ryan Schultz just sold one on the For Sale section of TUBENET. I played it briefly last summer. Huge tone, lots of fundamental. And, yes it sucks a lot of air! Ryan or the new owner could tell you more.