Curtis Audition requirements

[Yosef: Tubist]

I'd place bets on the teacher

[Yosef: Tubist]

plus with the audition requirements they have... you'll probably want to play some on CC or BBb (too bad they won't let you) and some on F or EEb

[Biggs]

if you don't want to play by the rules, apply somewhere else.

But I don't think that is the point.... There are many fine young players who's parents simply may not have the money to supply Jenny or Timmy with $8,000 worth of tubas in the HOPES they might win the audition to GO TO COLLEGE. Remember folks, this is an educational institution not a guarantee to an orchestral career. While there may be more Curtis grads who hold tuba playing jobs right now, there are still more Curtis grads that don't! To place what is in effect an additional financial requirement to simply audition smells bad to me.

If you can't provide the tubas, there are plenty of schools that can provide the tubas. Perhaps those schools' orchestras or teachers are less renowned, but, again, their practice rooms are identical.

[windshieldbug]

It is also interesting to note that there are no such requirements for the other brass instruments.
No requirement for Bb, C, & Piccolo Trumpets
No requirement for Descant horns, or even double horns
No requirement for Alto trombone
Hell, there isn't even any sort of requirements for the clarinet auditions.

(And this is not to you, Robert, only in general)

To be honest, NORMAL orchestral parts don't require those. The definition of a "tuba", however, depends on the time period and location.

If The Curtis wants to ensure SERIOUS candidates, then they are within their rights. How many tuba jobs open up in a decade? To ask for someone who has been serious enough to study privately, do summer festivals, and have the required hardware, to me, is not unreasonable.

Did I have/know it? No. Should I have? YES! Will they possibly turn away someone who might become awesome, given the chance? Maybe. But there are LOTS of conservatories to go to, so why bitch about this ONE!?

They don't even TAKE a tuba player unless there's an opening in one of their orchestras. I think that if you could blow away every candidate on ANY HORN they brought, then The Curtis would love you. If you can nail the pianissimo G# entrance at the end of Bydlo on a BBb, go for it!!

Otherwise, stop bitching, and practice!

[SplatterTone]

Stop bitching, and practice!

Practice bitching. Kill two birds with one stone. Efficiency!

[bttmbow]

Look at the link on their website, then read everything ELSE that comes prior to instrument requirements...

perhaps those might be more important.

[You might want to purchase a CC (and/or a bass tuba) AFTER you get chosen.]


These thoughts are NOT elephant OR cjantsch approved,

so post (or not) accordingly...

[Casey Tucker]

look at how much rep is required for the alto trombone. there's not much. idk how it works elsewhere but i know in texas, the better percentage of trumpet beginners use Bb and then progress to different horns depending on the skill. that means if they're seriously considering a performance degree at a high ranking university they most likely will have both the CC and Bb. the Eb/D and pic is something that is relative to the teacher. some of my friends have them some don't (some don't need them!) and it just depends on who they've taken from previously. some choose to introduce the horns at different points in their career. 90% of the horns that i've met play double horns and the key of clarinet is dependent on the key of the piece. unless you're talking about german vs. french key systems. that discussion belongs on a different forum.

i think it's just because the standard in most orchestras is CC and F (sometimes EEb) tubas and they're training their students for a performing career.

[SplatterTone]

Those paranoid people who play those weenie C horns don't want a burly bruiser coming in with the mighty BB-flat and whapping them up side the head with some serious tuba sound.

[sloan]

Those paranoid people who play those weenie C horns don't want a burly bruiser coming in with the mighty BB-flat and whapping them up side the head with some serious tuba sound.

how about those 3 'bone players sitting next to him?

[sloan]

Ok, then make the requirement upon entry into the program, not for audition.

Dear sir: I wish to apply for the job of "pitcher" for the New York Yankees. I am prepared to audition - but I have not yet purchased a glove or spikes. If you are impressed with my throwing (I've mastered the "fast ball" and promise to work on my slider RealSoonNow) and give me the job, I will be happy to acquire the appropriate equipment. I apologize that I was brought up by parents who did not expose me to baseball in any way, but my teammates on the soccer team tell me that my "throwin" is world class and I'm sure I can out-throw anyone else who shows up for the audition.

[TubaRay]

my teammates on the soccer team tell me that my "throwin" is world class and I'm sure I can out-throw anyone else who shows up for the audition.

World class? This guy needs to become a member of TubeNet(or whatever it is we become when we sign up).

[Biggs]

look at how much rep is required for the alto trombone. there's not much.

Mozart
Beethoven
Brahms
Schubert
Schumann
Berlioz
Mendelssohn
Schoenberg
Berg
Britten
That's not much symphonic literature that calls for Alto trombone.

Haydn? I think?

[Casey Tucker]

no, you're right. you're not applying for a JOB. but you are applying to a school with very high standards which include playing CC and F. yes, there are very good players that play Bb but the fact of the matter is Curtis requires CC and F. period. they can require whatever they want unfortunately (or fortunately. just depends on how you look at it). they want talented and experienced musicians. I'm expecting they don't want to have to work on fingerings but more on the music your playing. which is why they're asking you to be able to play both on your audition. again, it's NOT A JOB. even if it's not, i'm still going to treat this audition as if it is. because in the long run, practicing an audition process, like the one for Curtis, will innevitably start preparing you for a professional audition. they don't treat you like a student. they treat you like a professional and they should. so i guess you COULD call it a JOB.

[TexTuba]

Ok, then make the requirement upon entry into the program, not for audition.

I am prepared to audition - but I have not yet purchased a glove or spikes.

Yes, since tubas cost as much as gloves and spikes. I really wish this was dropped because it's obvious that there are those on this board who think one way and those who think another. No one is going to give in to the other's opinion, and the school could care less about what is said here. This school is really no better or worse than the other "big schools." You can make the reasoning for two horns that it's a "professional environment." The bottom line is that they are NO pros. Pros get paid, period.

[Mark]

this one seems a bit "elite" in my opinion. It eliminates at least some fine players who simply haven't been exposed to the variety of tubas out there and certainly don't have the resources to own two or more instruments.

Excellent point.... Does this requirement not skew the table towards more affluent families who can afford multiple tubas for their children?

The more I think about all of this, the more it upsets me. (Does that do anyone any good? No.)

RC

I have a solution. Curtis should admit everyone who wants to go there. Curtis should supply each student with as many tubas as the student wants. Curtis should not charge tuition and should supply each student with free housing and food. That fair isn't? To each according to his needs, right?

[Posaune2]

I think there are a couple of important points that need to be emphasized here:

1. At Curtis, there is only ONE tuba player, and ONE orchestra. The tuba student at Curtis must have the chops and equipment to play anything in the orchestral rep from their first day there. Players on most of the other orchestral instruments have the chance to ease their way into demanding parts over their first couple of years. The tuba player will not have that luxury. The flip side of that is, you may have the chance to play for a conductor like Sir Simon Rattle within weeks (maybe even during your first week) of starting school. There aren't too many schools where you will have both that responsibility and that opportunity from the moment you arrive on campus.

2. An audition for Curtis is much more like an audition for grad school or for an orchestra like New World Symphony or Chicago Civic Orchestra than like your typical audition for an incoming freshman at a big music school.

3. Many Curtis students do not come there straight out of HS, but do a couple of years of college first. If you aren't already fairly conversant with the orchestral repertoire, if you don't have at least some skill on both CC and Eb or F, you probably should go to another school first, and apply to Curtis when you are better prepared.

4. Curtis is offering an opportunity to get a tuition free education, in an environment that is designed to mimic the professional world and prepare students to function in it. In the professional world, you bring your own equipment, and if you bring the "wrong" equipment, you don't thrive. Curtis believes that the "right" equipment to thrive in the orchestral world in this country is CC & Eb or F. If you think they are wrong, you should probably go somewhere else.

Eric Carlson, (who didn't go to Curtis, doesn't teach there, but respects what the school does)

[sloan]

No.... In my mind fair would be allowing a potential student to audition on whatever key tuba they owned or felt comfortable with rather than having to own two tubas of only three of the four available keys.

How about a Bb tuba (a euphonium) or a Bb slide tuba (a trombone) - or perhaps a bass flute?

[windshieldbug]

... and violinists should audition only on cardboard violins! (saving the big outlay for when they REALLY get good!)

[lgb&dtuba]

I'm glad to see that there is a school like Curtis that has not caved in to the notion that everything in this life has to be geared for the lowest common demominator.

Compared to the price of attending other schools that do, it sounds like Curtis is quite a bargain even with the up front cost of bringing in your own tubas. And I didn't see anywhere in this discussion that the required instruments had to be brand new $10,000 ones, either.

[sungfw]

Well said, Elephant! I couldn't agree more.

And to reinforce the point, see Doug Yeo's comments on "What are audition judges thinking about?" at the end of his discussion of performance standards.