Rudolf Meinl

mTaUrBkA · Post by **mTaUrBkA** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 11:42 pm

Is anyone knowledgable about rudolf meinl tubas? Their website gives some useful information, but does anyone know the model names of the 4/4 and 5/4 rudolf meinl makes? Or has anyone had experience playing them and have any insight?

Wyvern · Post by **Wyvern** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 3:35 am

I visited the Rudolf Meinl factory earlier this year - see my report at viewtopic.php?t=22407&highlight=

The 5/4 BBb is called the 'Bayreuth' - the one I previously tried was by far the best BBb I have ever played - what a sound!

pwhitaker · Post by **pwhitaker** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 8:01 am

I recentlly bought the large 4 valve BBb Rudy advertised here last month from Tunanark in Quebec. I have a year-old 1291 5 valve BBb which I'm now planning to sell. The Rudy is in a class by itself. It has a 20 inch bell with a garland and might be a 6/4 although it was advertised as a 5/4 by the previous owner.

This horn is very large yet very nimble - more so than the 1291 which itself is easy to blow. The low register is very solid although it doesn't slot as well as the 1291 which is freakish down there (low F to low A in particular). The intonation is excellent - I need only pull for the 1-2-3-4 low C, using 1-2-4 for the low Eb. The low B bell tone is very clean and focused. Above the staff is very playable on this horn and these notes have a very sweet timbre. The cash register is stentorian yet dulcet as well. Massive is probably the best adjective for the overall sound.

I used this horn in a couple of Trad Jazz gigs recently and the guys were amazed at the depth and breadth of the sound - the blind piano player almost fell off his bench when he heard this horn for the first time in the opening tune. I'm using very wide mpc's (35.5 mm inner rim) with extra deep cups (deeper than the Klier T1 AA) on this horn and it responds beautifully. The bore on this horn is larger than the 1291 - I can put the 1291 main tuning slide inside the Rudy's main slide.

I told my wife that if we hit the lottery I'd put her on a plane to Diespeck (she likes to travel) to bring back a new 6/4 Rudy BBb. I really like this horn.

thedeep42 · Post by **thedeep42** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 8:40 am

i have a 5/4 C. i asked at one time and i believe the model is RMC 50 though they don't put any numbers on their tubas. i think rudy tubas function on a different size scale than other manufacturers.. my 5/4 is as big or bigger than several 6/4's i've seen. the sound is big and dark and it has a ton of power. it is a little tricky when it comes to versatility as most big tubas are. you should really have your stuff together (i'm still getting there, probably always will be working that direction). the 4/4's are big enough for most C tuba needs, heck, even the 3/4's a pretty decent size. when i was asking around they had a reputation for having a lot of variation in quality, so you should plan to play a few. if you can. i've played the 5/4 B as well and that was a lot of fun. neptune's visit was a good idea

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 12:17 pm

Lee Stofer is the person to talk to about getting one.

mTaUrBkA · Post by **mTaUrBkA** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 1:04 pm

Thanks. A teacher I have worked with at music camp highly suggested that I look into rudolf meinl tubas for a C tuba for college, and unfortunately it's hard to get a chance to try one, especially living in New Hampshire.

Mark · Post by **Mark** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 2:04 pm

Neptune wrote:I visited the Rudolf Meinl factory earlier this year - see my report at viewtopic.php?t=22407&highlight=

The 5/4 BBb is called the 'Bayreuth' - the one I previously tried was by far the best BBb I have ever played - what a sound!

How did the Bayreuth compare in size to your big Cerveny?

tubatom91 · Post by **tubatom91** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 3:59 pm

I bought and returned the Rudolf Meinl 4/4 CC on the tuba exchange website. I liked it but it was too small for me, I have heard from a few people that Rudy's are on the small side. I really had no complaints about it other than how small it was.

TubaRay · Post by **TubaRay** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 4:23 pm

tubatom91 wrote:I bought and returned the Rudolf Meinl 4/4 CC on the tuba exchange website. I liked it but it was too small for me, I have heard from numerous people that Rudy's are on the small side. I really had no complaints about it other than how small it was.

Rudys are small?

tubatom91 · Post by **tubatom91** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 4:29 pm

the 4/4 models I've seen are. The 4/4 model I got almost matched my teachers 3/4 Rudy

chhite · Post by **chhite** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 5:01 pm

tubatom91 wrote:the 4/4 models I've seen are. The 4/4 model I got almost matched my teachers 3/4 Rudy

That's physically impossible. The 3/4 is roughly the same size as a 186 and the 4/4 is substantially larger. The 4345 is the in-between model that might be confusing you. The rotor 4345 is classified as a 7/8 CC and shares the valveset from the 3/4 but the body is slightly larger. The piston version looks like the Hirsbrunner HB-20.

Rudi gets his piston valvesets from a company near Frankfurt so any mention of current versions with Nirschl/B&M or MW valves is not true. There are a few early ones but there were some quality issues that sent Rudi searching elsewhere.

Back to the assertion that Rudolf Meinl tubas are small. Their bore sizes are consistently larger than horns of comparible physical size, hence them playing and sounding larger than their nomenclature(ie 3/4=4/4, 5/4=6/4). Check your measurements again to make sure you're comparing apples with apples. Go to http://www.rudolf-meinl.com/ for more details.

Wyvern · Post by **Wyvern** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 5:11 pm

Mark wrote:How did the Bayreuth compare in size to your big Cerveny?

The Bayreuth was bigger both physically (broader across the bottom bow) and in sound - not by a huge amount, but definitely bigger.

Jonathan "who still sometimes wishes he had bought that Bayreuth (which was an exceptionally good one)"

cjk · Post by **cjk** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 6:36 pm

tubatom91 wrote:I bought and returned the Rudolf Meinl 4/4 CC on the tuba exchange website. I liked it but it was too small for me, I have heard from a few people that Rudy's are on the small side. I really had no complaints about it other than how small it was.

I went and checked the tuba exchange website.
http://www.tubaexchange.com/used-produc ... D%20RM4345

Key CC
Size 4/4
Valve Type 5 Rotary
Bell Diameter 17"
Bore Diameter .728"
Height 39.5"
Finish Lacquer

If the link and specs above match the tuba in question, it's actually a 3/4 RM CC. A "4/4" RM would have an 18 inch bell and a .770" bore.

mTaUrBkA · Post by **mTaUrBkA** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 7:48 pm

I wonder why their sizing scale seems to differ from other companies...

tubatom91 · Post by **tubatom91** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 8:05 pm

chhite wrote:
tubatom91 wrote:the 4/4 models I've seen are. The 4/4 model I got almost matched my teachers 3/4 Rudy
That's physically impossible. The 3/4 is roughly the same size as a 186 and the 4/4 is substantially larger. The 4345 is the in-between model that might be confusing you. The rotor 4345 is classified as a 7/8 CC and shares the valveset from the 3/4 but the body is slightly larger. The piston version looks like the Hirsbrunner HB-20.

Rudi gets his piston valvesets from a company near Frankfurt so any mention of current versions with Nirschl/B&M or MW valves is not true. There are a few early ones but there were some quality issues that sent Rudi searching elsewhere.

Back to the assertion that Rudolf Meinl tubas are small. Their bore sizes are consistently larger than horns of comparible physical size, hence them playing and sounding larger than their nomenclature(ie 3/4=4/4, 5/4=6/4). Check your measurements again to make sure you're comparing apples with apples. Go to http://www.rudolf-meinl.com/ for more details.

well, when he bought his in1970 it was listed as a 3/4 and when I bought mine it was listed as a 4/4, with a .728 bore size. its roughly 40" tall. but like I said in a previous post I returned it to the tuba exchange, it is listed on their site.

Steve Inman · Post by **Steve Inman** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 9:33 pm

The .728 bore Rudys are the 3/4 (-ish) sized models. The old, venerable 3/4 model 435 had this bore and the 17" (17.25"?) bell. Their 4/4 models have a bore of (iirc) about the same as a typical 4/4 rotary -- ~ .770 perhaps. But the 5/4 instruments used to have a huge bore -- maybe around .850 or so!

Sam Gnagey used to have a 5/4 CC -- he should know the bore size.

Cheers,

mTaUrBkA · Post by **mTaUrBkA** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 10:58 pm

How versatile do you think the 4/4 rudy meinls are? (which actually seem to be closer to other 5/4s?)

tubafatness · Post by **tubafatness** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 11:09 pm

mTaUrBkA wrote:How versatile do you think the 4/4 rudy meinls are? (which actually seem to be closer to other 5/4s?)

My older 4/4 Rudy CC is a great horn, although I am a bit biased towards Rudys in general. I like my horns to be a little on the large side, though, so keep that in mind. I think the size of these horns, like other similar horns, is just about right for anyone who plays a contrabass tuba for all or almost every application. It can have enough power to carry at least a medium sized orchestra or band, but can be used for smaller setting, as well. They can be a little mouthpiece sensitive, but a lot of horns are. Just a Rudy player's opinion, though, so take it how you will.

chhite · Post by **chhite** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:22 am

mTaUrBkA wrote:How versatile do you think the 4/4 rudy meinls are? (which actually seem to be closer to other 5/4s?)

I've used my 4/4 in solos, quintets, and large bands without changing a thing. I've seen the 5/4 used in quintets although it would not be my choice. If I were to buy another it would be the 5/4 just to have a little more gas(or GAS) when I wanted it. Combined with my Rudi 5/4 F I have little need for anything else at the moment(insert sigh from wife here).

The horn at TE is listed as the 4345 which, as I explained in an earlier post, is the model in between the 3/4 and 4/4. I preferred the rotor version over the piston model and the same went for the piston vs. rotor CC, which most of you have not seen unless you've been to the factory or the MusikMesse. My opinion of the horn was primarily jaded by the less than solid feel of the bracing around the valveset. It just wasn't as solid as I would like but the horn still played very well otherwise.

Baltimore Brass has both a 4/4 and 5/4 on their site. If you can make it to the store, try them out. Or wait to see if they're around at the end of January at the TUSAB Conference.

Geotuba · Post by **Geotuba** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 10:04 am

I got my 5/4 Bayreuth BBb in July and it is absolutely superb

. I have briefly blogged about it here where there are also some photos. The entire register gives incredible warm tone and it is very responsive at all dynamic levels. The only negative so far is that the rotary valves have a lot of bounce from the neoprene bumpers which therefore requires careful control on release. That is very difficult especially in faster passages and I am going to have to find some time to get Ron Parch to work his magic, either replacing the bumpers with cork (although then they won't last anywhere near so long) and/or increase the tension (torque really isn't it?) on the springs.

Perfect for both orchestral and wind band work (if the CC bigots will let you into the orchestra with it

)

I have also used it in quintet and find that I prefer it to my older B&H EEb simply for the sound if nothing else despite having to play in the higher partials more.

As for pulling slides, so far I have figured out that I need to use the 2nd valve trigger (which was an optional extra) for the B below the staff (2-4 or 1-2-3) and possibly the G below that (1-2), then the Eb below that is 1-2-4 with no trigger, D below that is 2-3-4, Db below that is 1-3-4 and C below that is 1-2-3-4 plus trigger. I cannot play the B below that although a better player than me might figure something out!