Tubists: Contrabass trombone as a double?

CC · Post by CC » Mon Nov 26, 2007 10:58 pm

I'm curious to know how prevalent is it for tubists to use contrabass trombone as a double? If so, is BBb or F/Eb/G more common? I see the LA studio guys doing it here in the US, but outside of that market is anyone else doing this? in Europe?

Thanks!
Chris

CC · Post by CC » Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:33 pm

Yea, the only Eb I've seen is Dick Tyack's custom Thein as well. Not sure what's fashionable on the LA scene but those Mirafone BBb's are big mothers man. The only reason I ask is a conversation with a bass slide kazoo buddy of mine the other day. We wondered who played them the majority of the time when asked for. I thought I would ask the all-knowing Tubenet freak jury.

Brendan Bohnhorst · Post by **Brendan Bohnhorst** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:42 pm

I played on McGill's Mirafone BBb contrabass when I was at the school. It was VERY difficult to play, a real dog. The Bass Trombone players at the school hated it. It was kinda fun to learn, but beyond playing Rouchut's with a few friends, I never really used it on anything.

It was hard to play loud with a good sound, the horn tended to want to bark. As for a mouthpiece, it seemed to work best with a cimbasso mouthpiece. Something in between a bass trombone and a tuba piece.

I am glad that I don't have to play one on anything and I can't really imagine getting a call to do so.

TexTuba · Post by **TexTuba** » Tue Nov 27, 2007 12:05 am

So I have a question. What is the point of a contrabass trombone? I double on bass bone, and I don't see the point of having a contrabass. I mean, if you can't do it on a bass bone, shouldn't you be doing it then on a tuba? It just seems to me to be one of those, "I have one so I'm cool" kind of situations. OTOH, I could be a COMPLETE idiot and be wrong.

Brendan Bohnhorst · Post by **Brendan Bohnhorst** » Tue Nov 27, 2007 12:13 am

Das Reingold has some sections written for contrabass trombone. I can't really think of any other works off the top of my head though. Maybe some one with an opera job that actually gets to sit next to one of these things from time to time could chip in...

CC · Post by CC » Tue Nov 27, 2007 12:37 am

Brendan Bohnhorst wrote:Das Reingold has some sections written for contrabass trombone. I can't really think of any other works off the top of my head though...

Here are some other works that use contrabass...

Glinka: 3 Symphonies
VarÃ¨se: Integrales, Ameriques
Zimmermann: Die Soldaten
Stravinski: Canticum Sacrum
Strauss: Salome, Electra

Any others? I can't seem to locate my Daniel's Handbook...

finnbogi · Post by **finnbogi** » Tue Nov 27, 2007 2:46 am

Bob1062 wrote:I have read arguments that since the orchestra trombones play slide instruments now, that playing a contrabass trombone on Verdi and whatnot would be a good idea...

The music director at the Icelandic Opera prefers having cimbasso parts (in Verdi and more) played on contrabass trombone rather than tuba.

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Tue Nov 27, 2007 9:14 am

TexTuba wrote:So I have a question. What is the point of a contrabass trombone? I double on bass bone, and I don't see the point of having a contrabass. I mean, if you can't do it on a bass bone, shouldn't you be doing it then on a tuba? It just seems to me to be one of those, "I have one so I'm cool" kind of situations. OTOH, I could be a COMPLETE idiot and be wrong.

Since you mentioned it, I vote the latter. For more info as to why different configurations of bones are necessary:
http://www.yeodoug.com/

LoyalTubist · Post by **LoyalTubist** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 1:15 am

Yes, I do.

Next question...

Tuba-G Bass · Post by **Tuba-G Bass** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 5:30 am

I bought a Miraphone BBb Contrabass Trombone back in March of this year,
I play with the Bethlehem PA Moravian Trombone Choir, which has Soprano,
Eb and F Alto, Tenor, Bass, and now two Contrabass Trombones, the other is a mid 80's custom made
Larry Minick CBT, which was CC, but now is BBb.

We play Moravian chorales and other classical music, mostly the CBT's play the Bass part down an octave,
sometimes we have parts written for us, or also play the Tuba part if available.

Once I get some time, I hope to get some sort of webpage up
with Pictures, sound and video clips, I just taped us in High Def playing in a one room school house.

Some links
http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topi ... .msg469962

http://webpages.charter.net/gmtc/GMTCFAQ.html

http://www.moravianhistoricalsociety.or ... .php?id=67

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... Id=1321215

The Bethlehem Area Moravian Trombone Choir is the
oldest continuous musical organization in North America (1754)

The Bone Ranger · Post by **The Bone Ranger** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 8:24 am

I had a Thein F contra in my possesion for about 18 months. Whilst I didn't get to play it as much as I would have liked (it's hard to justify practicing it when there are no gigs for it) I became relatively proficient on it, able to play excerpts and etudes etc.

I think you have to hear one in action before you say 'why not just play bass bone or tuba'. It really is a unique sound. I wish I'd had the chance to play it in a full brass section ala The Ring, or even at the bottom of a trombone choir. Hopefully in a year or two.

Whilst it's not the most nimble of instruments, it's use in chorale's etc is where it really shines. I was lucky enough to sub on a rehearsal for a Ring cycle on bass trombone (my main instrument), and having the contra next to you adds so much mass and weight to the section. And the sheer power in the lower register is something to behold.

Most of the guys in the LA studio's are playing contras in F nowadays, though some of the tuba players are still playing BBb contras. Next time you see a movie with a war in it, listen out....

THE guy to listen to is Ben van Dijk, an outstanding bass and contra player. Check out his solo albums. I recommend his album 'Nana', where he plays two Bruckner motets with the NY Phil trombone section, consisting of alto, tenor, bass, and contra. A gorgeous blend. One of my favourite trombone albums, period, but the contra playing is a nice bonus.

Andrew

tuba_hacker · Post by **tuba_hacker** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 10:53 am

I had a Thein F contra in my possesion for about 18 months

in the style of Homer Simpson...drooling

But seriously folks, I know this is a tuba forum, but the contrabass thread came up, so here goes.

Brandt Attema, a student of Ben van Dijk, and bass trombonist wihth the Radio Philharmonic Orchestra of the Netherlands, gave a masterclass at the 2006 Eastern Trombone Workshop. He was playing a Thien contrabass, and he had an ensemble with two or three bass/tenor trombonists, bass trumpet, and tuba (Steve Dumaine). They played orchestral excepts, mostly Wagner, and I understand that it was a list originally performed by Ben van Dijk. I can reproduce that list if anyone's interested. The very end of the master class Brandt and the ensemble performed Enrique Crespo's "Bruckner EtÃ¼de fÃ¼r das teife Blech", a piece so beautiful and performed so well it almost brought tears to my eyes.

The Crespo piece is also performed by the New Trombone Collective on thier CD entitled "Collective", with Brandt playing contrabass. I haven't yet heard the van Dijk CDs. I think also Phil Teele has made some recordings on contrabass. Having a 20 year break in playing has gotten me behind on stuff and I'm still catching up.

MartyNeilan · Post by **MartyNeilan** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 11:06 am

The Bone Ranger wrote:I had a Thein F contra in my possesion for about 18 months. Whilst I didn't get to play it as much as I would have liked (it's hard to justify practicing it when there are no gigs for it)...

I think the last part of that quote says it all.
There are soooo many doubles that would actually make money for an aspiring tuba player - upright bass, e-bass, bass trombone, even (dare I mention it) bari sax

Not to mention the usefulness of decent piano / keyboard chops or being a Finale / Sibelius whiz.

TubeNet

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