Another Chapped Lips Question...

[jbaylies]

My lips have been chapped for about two months now, and my problem isn't trying to get them to heal, but to try to get them to stop getting worse! When they did get chapped I simply stopped playing for a couple of days to let them heal entirely. Then when they looked fine I practiced for an hour or so, and they became chapped again! This process repeated itself a few times, and I was wondering what I could do to stop this from happening and get them to heal entirely. Right now I'm drinking lots of water, and using Blistex DTC.

I'm also curious about a story I heard about a trombone player who used vaseline while he played! Would that help me? Doesn't it clog up the instrument?

[djwesp]

Whatever you end up using, NO CAMPHOR.



I use DCT. Great stuff, you just have to apply before bedtime. They also make a clear gel zinc oxide that does wonders as well.

[jbaylies]

Whatever you end up using, NO CAMPHOR.

You responded in like, 30 seconds...

Thanks for the info.

[djwesp]

Whatever you end up using, NO CAMPHOR.

You responded in like, 30 seconds...

Thanks for the info.

Camphor as an ingredient is a bad sign. Not only is camphor poisionous in large doses (like if you had an open sore in your mouth), in smaller quantities it alters the muscle tissue and is a neuromuscular agent. The fact it is still used commercially is shocking.

[MileMarkerZero]

Where are you located?

This time of year is really bad with the cold wind, etc. In addition to staying hydrated (harder this time of year with usually very-low humidity), and applying a good lip balm, consider wearing a muffler/scarf/bandanna over your mouth when outside to keep the cold wind off of your chops.

Oh, and unless you are playing, breathe through your nose exclusively.

[jbaylies]

Where are you located?

Northern Massachusetts, so yeah, it's pretty cold and dry. I'll use my Tubachristmas™© scarf!

[Tubaryan12]

Camphor as an ingredient is a bad sign. Not only is camphor poisionous in large doses (like if you had an open sore in your mouth), in smaller quantities it alters the muscle tissue and is a neuromuscular agent. The fact it is still used commercially is shocking.

I did a little math. The level of camphor neeeded to cause toxic effects in adults is 2 grams (to kill, it takes 4 grams). In order to get that amount from a common tube of Carmex ointment, you would have to consume almost 12 full tubes (or 24 tubes to kill). The most dangerous chemical mentioned in this entire thread to humans is water. It kills and injures more people each year than camphor could ever hope for.

[iiipopes]

Vaseline based balm is as bad as camphor in another way: it doesn't let the oxygen in so it can heal.

Chopsaver

Specifically made with healing herbals and a base compound that soothes but still lets oxygen through.

If your local store doesn't have it, go to www.chopsaver.com

On second thought, go read about it on the website anyway. Only the likes of Wayne Bergeron and Arturo Sandoval use it exclusively now for their chapped lip needs, what can I say? It kept me going through a 3-hours in the cold wind helping my son's cub scout pack with a Saturday morning for the Salvation Army playing tuba along with their caroling.

[djwesp]

Camphor as an ingredient is a bad sign. Not only is camphor poisionous in large doses (like if you had an open sore in your mouth), in smaller quantities it alters the muscle tissue and is a neuromuscular agent. The fact it is still used commercially is shocking.

I did a little math. The level of camphor neeeded to cause toxic effects in adults is 2 grams (to kill, it takes 4 grams). In order to get that amount from a common tube of Carmex ointment, you would have to consume almost 12 full tubes (or 24 tubes to kill). The most dangerous chemical mentioned in this entire thread to humans is water. It kills and injures more people each year than camphor could ever hope for.

Courtesy FDA:

Regular use of camphor either topically or by inhalation can result in the development of symptoms of toxicity at a lower rate of consumption.

Other Medical Journals that cite this:

Uc A, Bishop WP, Sanders KD. Camphor hepatotoxicity. South Med J 2000;93:596-8.

United States Committee on Drugs. Camphor revisited: Focus on toxicity. 1994;94:127-8.

I was originally provided information regarding camphors toxicity as it relates to brass players by this guy http://www.regiment.org/story.cfm?ID=518 in 2001. He is very, VERY qualified to speak on the subject.

[djwesp]

I think Burts Bees Lip Balm is camphor free. I have a tube and like it though I don't use it much.

It smells good, too.

[Tubaryan12]

Camphor as an ingredient is a bad sign. Not only is camphor poisionous in large doses (like if you had an open sore in your mouth), in smaller quantities it alters the muscle tissue and is a neuromuscular agent. The fact it is still used commercially is shocking.

I did a little math. The level of camphor neeeded to cause toxic effects in adults is 2 grams (to kill, it takes 4 grams). In order to get that amount from a common tube of Carmex ointment, you would have to consume almost 12 full tubes (or 24 tubes to kill). The most dangerous chemical mentioned in this entire thread to humans is water. It kills and injures more people each year than camphor could ever hope for.

Courtesy FDA:

Regular use of camphor either topically or by inhalation can result in the development of symptoms of toxicity at a lower rate of consumption.

Other Medical Journals that cite this:

Uc A, Bishop WP, Sanders KD. Camphor hepatotoxicity. South Med J 2000;93:596-8.

United States Committee on Drugs. Camphor revisited: Focus on toxicity. 1994;94:127-8.

I was originally provided information regarding camphors toxicity as it relates to brass players by this guy http://www.regiment.org/story.cfm?ID=518 in 2001. He is very, VERY qualified to speak on the subject.

1st quote; what is less? Even at a tenth he would have to injest 1 full tube. Both of the studies you quoted are in pediactrics. There are plenty of things out there that will harm children but are safe for adults. Aspirin is a perfect example. I'm sure Dr. Richardson is quite qualified to speak on this, as well as the folks who wrote the papers with the 2 gram number. Who's right? I don't know. But I'll bet dollars to donuts that more folks use products with camphor safely than get sick using them. And I'll bet it's not even close.

[Yosef: Tubist]

I personally like the new Chapstick brand All Naturals with Vitamin E

some of the newer all naturals by Chapstick don't have the Vitamin E. Look for the ones that do. It works really well. In fact I find also what works well is the Wallgreens brand chapstick and its two for a dollar

Someone once told me that you should stay away from any lip balm that contains any sort of alcohol in that it can break down your lip muscles, so this could include other things besides camphor.

I tried burt's bees wax for about a week and noticed my playing was slightly off, switched back to using nothing and my playing improved, in fact I've found that using anything that has that tingly feeling hurts my playing(and I'm pretty sure what causes the tingling is the alcohol.

Right now I use DCT because wallgreens(my appartment at school is RIGHT behind it ) had a sell on it a few weeks back so i bought two tubes!

Lip balms I've used and recommend:
-Chapstick all natural with Vitamin E
-DCT(only once a day or so though, it IS CALLED <b>Daily Conditioning Treatment</b>)
-Chop saver (got a free sample with my Giddings and Webster)
-Walgreens brand Chapstick(the black one)
-Chapstick with aloe spf 15(the blue one)
-or just nothing at all (can't do this in boone, too cold and windy )[/b]

[tofu]

[MileMarkerZero]

All you EVER wanted to know about camphor...

http://www.inchem.org/documents/pims/ph ... :1.%20NAME

[oldbandnerd]

....2.3 Diagnosis
Poisoning by camphor is associated with an initial excitatory
phase, with vomiting, diarrhoea and excitement, followed by NS
depression and death. A characteristic odour of camphor is
present on the breath.

...... nasty .....

[Tubaryan12]

All you EVER wanted to know about camphor...

http://www.inchem.org/documents/pims/ph ... :1.%20NAME

lol. That's the site where the toxicology numbers I quoted were from. Thanks for pulling that up.

....2.3 Diagnosis
Poisoning by camphor is associated with an initial excitatory
phase, with vomiting, diarrhoea and excitement, followed by NS
depression and death. A characteristic odour of camphor is
present on the breath.

...... nasty .....

sure, if you want to EAT the stuff.....lol

Ironically, these are the symptoms from drinking too much water:

Fatigue, Lightheadedness,Weakness,Cramping,Weight gain,Nausea,Bloating and/or swelling,Dizziness,Headache,Confusion,Fainting,Disorientation,Seizures (severe cases),Coma (severe cases), and in the case this past year of the woman in California trying to win the Wii during a radio contest: death.

Be carefull out there.


Thanks guys, I just realized this thread pushed me over 1000 post! yay me!

[Roger Lewis]

Nutrogena lip balm - only available in drug stores. I put it on before bed and right after playing. It works for me. I personally didn't like the Chop Savers but it is a good product.

If your chops are really bad, get a bottle of Vitamin E (alpha Tochoferol) gel caps and cut one open with a pair of scissors before going to be and smear it on. When you wake up in the morning your chops will feel like iron. It's oil of wheat germ and I believe that it is good for you. It smells a little weird, but you get used to it.

Roger

[Toobist]

Nobody (I don't think) is trying to say that any lip balm is going to kill us. Camphor effects the nerves through the skin by numbing them short-term and even long-term through extended use. As tubists, I'm sure we all understand the need for nerves around the lip area.

I normally use plain vitamin E gel when I absolutely need it... in emergency situations only. I seldomly use it, but if I wake up the morning of a gig with chapped lips, I can usually heydrate them sufficiently with one or two applications. Chopsaver is becoming a favourite as well.

There is a tendancy for some of us to become too reliant on topical ointments for our lips. Eventually our lips won't hydrate themselves as efficiently as they would have had they been left to fend for themselves with just the water we drink.

There was a statement above that I use with my own students: "If your pee is yellow, you should drink more water." This is especially useful during this time of year (in my climate anyhow), when the furnaces start pumping.

With the heat on during the winter, if we don't use a humidifier, there is a much better chance that we're gonna wake up with the ol' crusty lips. If you have a cold or allergies and find yourself breathing through your mouth primarily, the chances are that much greater.

My advice:
1) Drink lots of water. I promise... none of us has the time involved in drinking so much that it'll kill us.
2) Use balms that do not include camphor. (I find menthol has similar numbing qualities as well.) I used Chopsaver this morning after a long night of mouth-breathing due to a cold.
3) Use balms only when you feel that familiar dry sensation before your lips are truly chapped or when they are chapped. To make it a habit may lead to a dependancy on such products.
4) Look into a personal humidifier for the bedroom. Check the box for the square footage that it'll cover before purchasing to be sure it pumps out enough H2O for your bedroom.
5) See number 1.

[Tubaryan12]

3) Use balms only when you feel that familiar dry sensation before your lips are truly chapped or when they are chapped. To make it a habit may lead to a dependancy on such products.

The best advice given so far.

[ken k]

You know the grease that forms on your forehead and sides of your nose? rub it off on your finger and apply it to your lips. (seriously, but only when no one is watching....)
natures moisturizer....
I also use ChopSaver. Also drinking some more water will help hydrate from the inside.
ken k