Sousaphone ID help... please!

Dan Schultz · Post by **Dan Schultz** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 10:31 pm

It looks like it could be a Conn stencil very much like a 14K.... but definetely not a 20K. The 20K would have offset valves. The number on the bell collar is just a manfacturing ID number. Take some closer pictures of some of the details like braces, bell screws, and valve buttons/caps.

imperialbari · Post by **imperialbari** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 1:07 am

I agree with the Conn origins, but the inner circle tubing looks a bit slimmer than that of a 14K.

A fair number of Conn sousaphones are visually documented in my brass galleries, The index is here:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/YorkMaste ... III/files/

Klaus Smedegaard Bjerre

eupher61 · Post by **eupher61** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 7:07 am

not Eb, that's for sure, the shoulder support would be plain metal, not a tube.

imperialbari · Post by **imperialbari** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 7:18 am

eupher61 wrote:not Eb, that's for sure, the shoulder support would be plain metal, not a tube.

If that's so sure, then what about this one (photo loaned from the sale's section of this board):

The sousaphone being the topic of this thread certainly is in BBb. You cannot see that with any certainty from the shoulder tubing, but from the way the main bugle is wrapped in the valve section area.

Klaus Smedegaard Bjerre

Dan Schultz · Post by **Dan Schultz** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 10:32 am

The sousa in question is a BBb. Not-so-much because of the full wrap... but because of the double-crook in the tubing circuit above the third valve. Some of the King, Reynolds, and Olds Eb sousas had full-wraps instead of the 'dummy' shoulder tube.

CTAYLOR · Post by **CTAYLOR** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 1:27 pm

It is definately a Conn 32K

Lee Stofer · Post by **Lee Stofer** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 12:11 am

I think that the instrument in question is a Pan-American BBb sousaphone. It is similar to the Conn 32K, Conn-man, but if you squint a lot at the photos it has the flatter, wider ferrules like a
Pan-American.

And, if you do some rubbing and scrubbing on the valveset, most likely on the underside of the 2nd valve casing, you should find a serial number imbedded in the crud.

CTAYLOR · Post by **CTAYLOR** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 4:18 am

i had a horn just like this in high school. but it was shiny silver. On the bell engraving..it said "Pan American, Elkhart IN." And on the bell collar it said 32K. i assumed it was a Conn 32K

imperialbari · Post by **imperialbari** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 9:19 pm

CTAYLOR wrote:i had a horn just like this in high school. but it was shiny silver. On the bell engraving..it said "Pan American, Elkhart IN." And on the bell collar it said 32K. i assumed it was a Conn 32K

You easily can be right and slightly confused at the same time.

Aside from the engraving and some details regarding stays and maybe also regarding bow guards the â€œproperâ€

TUbajohn20J · Post by **TUbajohn20J** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 10:59 pm

well my 32k i played in high school also said "Pan American, Elkhart. IN" on the bell..but it said 32K on the bell collars. It had the "ridged" Conn bracings instead of the flat ones used on the Pan Americans. I believe it also said Conn on the engraving also. here are some pics..

The Jackson · Post by **The Jackson** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 12:25 am

You marched with a shako on?

Dan Schultz · Post by **Dan Schultz** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 1:08 am

tubashaman wrote:I dont think we need more debate on who made it

What we should focus on is getting an appromaxiate date on this horn. ....
Anyways, it would seem smart for a highschool to buy a similar model, if not in pairs, so lets get a date on it

Then.... as Dan O. suggested earlier... you'll need to come up with a serial number.

As far as high schools making smart descisions regarding which horns to buy... don't bet on it. Brite and shiney will always win out over repairability and parts resources. Then can raise money for new equipment but rarely have budgets for repairs.

Also, consider that the bells will interchange on many of the Conn-produced sousas. It's not unusual to find a Pan-Am bell on a 14K.... or vice-versa. If stuff can get mixed up, it will.

TUbajohn20J · Post by **TUbajohn20J** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 3:50 am

mine was a 32K from 1936. My horn is almost identical to Lisa's except for the braces. and to answer your question..yes they made the tubas march with hats. I had to use 3 bits.

CTAYLOR · Post by **CTAYLOR** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 1:57 pm

i gotta question..how come on the old Conn sousaphones, like the 14k, 32k, and some old 20k's the neck is always positioned really low on the horn?..which makes the bell lean way back and puts your head out in front of the horn i guess you could say. Like the pic above. I always stuck out in high school because everyone else had King sousas and I had the old Conn. I loved it though

TUbajohn20J · Post by **TUbajohn20J** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 2:13 pm

Like this you mean? I dont know either but i always hated it. It played good though. But band directors were always trying to get me to switch to one of the King horns because they said it didn't look right. Even with 3 tuning bits

imperialbari · Post by **imperialbari** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 8:25 am

If it plays well, then clean it up and use it in the band. Many old quality sousas have a longer life as players than as beauty queens. Two of my sousas are close to eighty years old, one is 64. The older ones are the best players.

Klaus Smedegaard Bjerre

imperialbari · Post by **imperialbari** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 8:34 am

Just took a look at your myspace page, according to which you are 73 years old. If that statement as well as the photo is true, then your talents must encompass biochemistry. At least you must have solved part of the Shangri-La formula. Will you also be able to transfer that formula to brass instruments?

KSB

Dan Schultz · Post by **Dan Schultz** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 9:13 am

Why not clean the sousa up and use it for pep band. You could even paint it school colors if you wanted to. As far as being a valuable antique goes... tell your boss that it MIGHT bring $100 at auction but he sure couldn't replace it for that.
I have another theory about the origin of that horn... It may have been 'donated' to the school by the widow of someone who simply didn't know what to do with it and thought they would be doing something nice for the school. Depending on when the gift was made, the school may have not known what to do with it, either.... and it simply ended up in the basement.

TUbajohn20J · Post by **TUbajohn20J** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 11:39 am

That is definately NOT an Eb sousaphone, but a BBb

Dan Schultz · Post by **Dan Schultz** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 12:11 pm

TUbajohn20J wrote:That is definately NOT an Eb sousaphone, but a BBb

Yeah... I forgot the original picture. It's most certainly a BBb souzie.