Not Only Tubas may be coming from China

Dan Schultz · Post by **Dan Schultz** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 9:20 am

Too bad those folks can't think for themselves. I wonder what American businessmen are behind that one!

Biggs · Post by **Biggs** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 3:42 pm

bloke wrote:SC (and many others) will probably interpret this as "political", but I only view my comments as having to do with ECONOMICS - whatever...

Here are just a couple of the problems with modern-day American unions:

- Not all coerced wages go to the workers. Unions collect up a steady/hefty percentage which gives the UNION LEADERSHIP (not the rank-and-file) undue influence with our rulers.

- The power of unions to push long-established corporations to pay wages up to the brink of bankruptcy is just fine for the rank-and-file, except that 1/ it pushes the rank-and-file up into higher tax brackets (again) sending too much money (through artificially-high taxation) to rulers - giving rulers additional excessive power and 2/ eventually pushes the corporations into BANKRUPTCY or TO CHINA.

I don't know if I interpret it politically; I just interpret it as right on the money.

OldsRecording · Post by **OldsRecording** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 7:20 pm

A Chinese 'Ferrari' for $15k?

Far too many jokes occuring to me right now...

lgb&dtuba · Post by **lgb&dtuba** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 8:22 pm

OldsRecording wrote:A Chinese 'Ferrari' for $15k? Far too many jokes occuring to me right now...

All the famous Chinese race car drivers endorse them.

MaryAnn · Post by **MaryAnn** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 5:23 pm

Read an interesting thing about democracy lately.

And that was: a democracy will survive until such time as the people realize that they can vote themselves benefits, and then the democracy will fail when the money runs out.
The US is in this phase now.
MA

And MA's own philosophy of government: it does not matter what system is in place, because a certain type of individual will figure out how to rise to the top of it, in time, and take all the money.

ken k · Post by **ken k** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 7:37 pm

did nt GM sue the chinese company that is making "Chery's"

reminds meof the scene in "The Chirstmas Story" at the Chinese restaurant and they are singing Fa-ra-ra-r-a....

ken k

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 8:22 pm

Well, just like musical instruments and everything else: Japan, Korea, Taiwan, now China.

But you know, a throwaway Ferrari clone would still be just as fun at the beach and through the corners.

I do see a market: the guy who can afford a collectable Ferrari buys one to keep in his garage and bring it out to the concours about twice a year, mid spring and mid autumn when the weather is nice, and drives the clone for fun the rest of the time.

lgb&dtuba · Post by **lgb&dtuba** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 9:49 pm

As for quality, I doubt it could be any worse to maintain or find parts for than the '67 MGB I once owned.

windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 1:40 pm

Chinese cars would be OK, but don't they drive upside down?

OldsRecording · Post by **OldsRecording** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 6:17 pm

MaryAnn wrote:Read an interesting thing about democracy lately.

And that was: a democracy will survive until such time as the people realize that they can vote themselves benefits, and then the democracy will fail when the money runs out.
The US is in this phase now.
MA

And MA's own philosophy of government: it does not matter what system is in place, because a certain type of individual will figure out how to rise to the top of it, in time, and take all the money.

Yes, the 'cream' may rise to the top, but so does 'scum' and 'oily discharge'.

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 9:47 pm

lgb&dtuba wrote:As for quality, I doubt it could be any worse to maintain or find parts for than the '67 MGB I once owned.

Or the 1967 Jaguar E-type I do own, and am going to have to figure out something to do about my SU carburettor diaphrams so they don't dissolve away now that all gasoline is mandated to have an ethanol content.

Dan Schultz · Post by **Dan Schultz** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 10:10 pm

iiipopes wrote:.... I am going to have to figure out something to do about my SU carburettor diaphrams so they don't dissolve away now that all gasoline is mandated to have an ethanol content.

Have you checked with Victoria British in Lexana, Kansas? It would surprise me if they haven't addressed this yet.

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 1:41 pm

TubaTinker wrote:
iiipopes wrote:.... I am going to have to figure out something to do about my SU carburettor diaphrams so they don't dissolve away now that all gasoline is mandated to have an ethanol content.
Have you checked with Victoria British in Lexana, Kansas? It would surprise me if they haven't addressed this yet.

Thanks. I called. My SU carburettors are the large 2-inch. Victoria British only have parts for MG, Austin, Sunbeam & Triumph, which for those older models that use SU carburettors, have the smaller 1 1/2 or 1 3/4 inch models, not the large 2 inch.

tubatooter1940 · Post by **tubatooter1940** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 6:59 pm

Don't know about carburettors and such but I hear the Chinese got a new form of S.T.D. over there that will make your talleywhacker fall off.

MaryAnn · Post by **MaryAnn** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 12:15 pm

Wow, memories. Many, many years ago I had a Datsun 2000 roadster (with a rollbar, no less) that had those SU carbs on it. Big honking diaphrams (yes, I took them apart; why not?) Little sucker was fun to drive. And it had an amazing design perk in that with the top down at 75 mph the driver and passenger could have a conversation at normal volume levels. It was a really stiff suspension though to drive cross-country in, which we did a couple times. That was .... uh....1971, methinks.

MA

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 3:27 pm

Indeed. Which illustrates that, as far as the "Chinese Ferrari" is concerned, it's not the first time an Asian auto manufacturer has copied a famous sports car. Hmm. SU's and a squarish front end -- can anybody say MGB?

Then there was the short lived Toyota 2000GT, the E-type inspired roadster that was made famous in the Bond film You Only Live Twice. If I didn't have my E-type, that's one I'd consider, but I'd have to purchase a coupe and have it converted: http://www.qv500.com/bondtoyota.php

Rick Denney · Post by **Rick Denney** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 6:25 pm

We are saying the same things about the Chinese now that we said about the Japanese 50 years ago, right down to the "monkey-see-monkey-do" sorts of comments.

But the Japanese have earned their spot in the creation of wealth. And they did it without slavery, despite that the typical Japanese worker in the 50's was both a highly motivated worker and also desperately poor. That is an unsustainable combination, however.

When a country creates more wealth through actually making things (as distinguished from digging things up), the workers eventually come to expect a better life for their troubles. If they don't get the better life, one of two things will happen: 1. They will slow down, or 2. they will rebel. Doing either will drive up costs of manufacturing for that country, and eventually it will occur to their rulers that making the workers' lives better is the cheaper alternative. That's what happened in Japan, and now the Japanese have about the same quality-of-life expectations that we do.

Countries that create more wealth only to see that wealth hoarded by the ruling class will eventually stop creating more wealth. We need to pay attention to that ourselves.

Thus, I'm not that worried about China's threat to us. Yes, they will make things cheaply, but they will also come to expect to buy and own those things. That will lead to expectations of better pay to make that possible. Better pay will lead to more consumption and that will lead to a larger market for their own products. It will also lead to higher costs and less of an advantage in the world market. Eventually they will reach equilibrium with other industrialized nations, if they don't get in their own way.

The Chinese government is walking a tightrope right now. Chinese workers smell success and they are motivated. But Chinese culture demands personal reward for labor, and there are too many of them to force them into economic slavery for too long. They will either lose their motivation (as they have in countless countries from the former Soviet empire to Mexico), or they will rebel. The government is more afraid of the latter, and will seek ways to allow reward to the people. That will increase consumption, etc.

The issue for us is maintaining our own economic strength while the Chinese are willing to work too much for too little. We've done well in some ways and poorly in others, but we are still the world's most productive economy despite all that has been said.

If you think the Chinese are incapable of sustaining technological progress, you need to go to your nearest grad school and interview a few of the Chinese students. It's their economic system's progress that will tell the tale.

We are a bigger threat to ourselves than the Chinese are, if we forget how important it is not to stand in the way of creating new wealth.

Rick "much more worried about those willing to shoot at us to get what they want" Denney