Is it just me?...

[tubafatness]

I thought I'd post on here about something that has been bothering me for awhile now, to see if anyone shares my same thoughts, (fat chance at that, but worth a try...)

It seems like whenever I see a tuba player recital listing, I see the same pieces, or type of pieces, over and over and over, ad nauseum. That's part of the reason why I did not renew my ITEA journal prescription when I had the chance: I was tired of looking at the listings and seeing what usually amounts to one or two different recital programs, spread over 25 or so players. My question is, why does it seem to be that tuba players are not branching out musically, (at least when it comes to solo recitals)? Yes, I very well see the use of playing standards and other well-accepted pieces, and am not against the playing of this type of music. However, I don't think that means tuba players should perform these works forever and ever, shunning other avenues of music. How can anyone expect to become a better musician if they play the same things over and over again?

I know they are players out there that are doing new and original things, so that brings me to my next question. Why is there not more publicity about people who are taking the tuba into new and exciting directions? I'm tired of seeing people play the same pieces, when I know that there are better works out there. I know that there is more music out there to be discovered, and I think that, as a whole, tuba players are ignoring the vast fields of music that are readily available. Do we really need to play the Adagio from the Limpid Stream every chance we get? Why should we play the Vaughan-Williams on every recital, like it's some holy musical idol? Is there a reason why people play [sometimes horribly made] transcriptions so much? (Don't get me wrong, I like transcriptions, just not the poor ones.)

Keep in mind, the biggest group of tubists I see this happening in are the college students, (a group which I am a part of, I'll admit.) Yes, I do see the value in learning all of the standards and often-played pieces. Yes, I do see the value in playing music which was written for other instruments. But I do not see the value in strictly adhering to this narrow band of music indefinitely. If tubists want to distinguish themselves as true soloists, then why should they try to be a violin player, (or trumpet player, horn player, etc.etc...) Then again, it may just be me...

[Mark]

That's part of the reason why I did not renew my ITEA journal prescription when I had the chance...

I'm not a spelling Nazi. I may be a Freudian Slip Nazi.

I think you answered your own question when you noted that most of the recital notices are for college students who may actually be required to play those specific works. That's just part of the training process.

What really bugs me about the notices are that they are usually published after the fact. I would go to some of those recitals if I knew about them before they occurred.

[CC]

What really bugs me about the notices are that they are usually published after the fact. I would go to some of those recitals if I knew about them before they occurred.

You should know that the ITEA Journal will only print those programs after the fact. They're not really intended as recital ads.

[tubafatness]

That's part of the reason why I did not renew my ITEA journal prescription when I had the chance...

I'm not a spelling Nazi. I may be a Freudian Slip Nazi.

I think you answered your own question when you noted that most of the recital notices are for college students who may actually be required to play those specific works. That's just part of the training process.

What really bugs me about the notices are that they are usually published after the fact. I would go to some of those recitals if I knew about them before they occurred.

That brings me to my next-next question, which is: Should college students, like myself, be absolutely required to fill their recitals with these standard, tried-and-true works? I think that it would be beneficial to let students have some degree of freedom in choosing repertoire, in order to allow at least a little bit of personal musical growth. College music programs are supposed to help students become better musicians, and I think that spoon-feeding these students a selective repertoire just seems counter-active.

[bort]

I see your point, but I don't know...as a math major, I'm sure I answered the same questions and proved the same theorems that thousands and thousands of other people had already done before me. Sort of a rite of passage I guess...

[circusboy]

We must be the change we wish to see in the world.

--Mohandas (Mahatma) K. Gandhi

[Lauronie]

Just some thoughts...

The recital program postings are such a small part of what the ITEA journal has to offer... and ITEA is one of the best organized, large-scale efforts to see new repertoire and opportunities for our instruments develop. To me, it always seems like they are good about featuring artists who are bringing something new to the table.

I am also a college student, and I don't feel like there is a stifling list of "must-play" pieces that keep me from working on things that I enjoy or find stimulating. Most degrees, other than the DMA, only require one recital to graduate. During my undergraduate I did four other non-degreed recitals. That was my personal outlet to play interesting things and do small and large collaborations... but I also played several standard works that helped me grow musically so that I could begin to approach new challenges and styles.

I guess I never even thought of submitting something to the journal about some of the more interesting gigs I've done, probably because there are no programs for things like playing with a rock band, etc. Just because there are trends in the "college recital circuit" doesn't mean that tubists/euphoniumists everywhere are only playing those same pieces.

I think your observation about the recital programs is interesting, but it is also on a small window into what is really going on in our community. People have to mail their programs to the ITEA editor in order to have them printed, and I know for a fact that many really interesting and innovative performances given at my university are never submitted. So maybe things aren't as bad as you think!

[a2ba4u]

My theory: Habit

Considering that a large number of current college professors made their names and career playing these same dozen pieces, it makes good sense that those are the pieces that they feel more comfortable teaching.

There are advantages to this approach. First, you get, in many cases, a career's worth of experience with the piece. The person "teaching" you the piece most likely has a fairly sophisticated understanding of it that has developed from many performances, many hearings, and many previous students. Second, like many professions, the study of music is based around sets of common experiences. All horn players know all of the Mozart concertos; all trumpet players know the Haydn; all tuba players know the Vaughan-Williams. The "dirty dozen" pieces, for us, form this common core that we all share to some degree.

There are also disadvantages. As you point out, it obvious limits the "new" stuff that goes on the programs. This perpetuates the cycle of stagnation. Also, playing the same pieces over and over, in my opinion, results in fairly one-dimensional players, who in turn become fairly one-dimensional performers and teachers. There are exceptions of course, but this seems to be the general rule from my personal experience.

My advice (not that you really asked for it) would be to simply play what you like. If there is something that you want to play or study then do it. Hopefully, you are studying with a teacher who welcomes self-starting students and isn't threatened when someone brings in a piece of music that they have never seen. College is the time to find your musical voice, so experiment away.

Kyle

[tubaben]

But I LOVE hearing the Strauss Horn Concerto on every tuba recital!

[tubafatness]

To correct a false impression I might have given:
I'm not basing my thoughts directly on what I read in the ITEA journal. I know how unrepresentative the listings section in that periodical can be. Thanks for the thoughts, though.

Yep, same faces playing the same tunes at every conference/workshop/recital/etc.

S"man, I hate Monti's Czardas on the toooba..."T

I can't tell if you're sarcastic in saying this, but I agree regardless.

But I LOVE hearing the Strauss Horn Concerto on every tuba recital!

Exactly!

[tubafatness]

I do not like solo recitals in general. When the repertoire is so limited and mediocre as ours I just avoid them like the plague.

I also strongly dislike like-instrument ensembles such as anything with a name like [insert instrument name here] Choir. The one exception to this, in limited amounts, is a really good Trombone Choir. Something about this voice covering such a broad range is really appealing to me.

I love recitals that mix up a variety of sounds, periods, and styles. A clever tubist can do some great programming once the warhorse "teaching pieces" have been mastered and are out of the way, so to speak.

A recital in an academic setting involving a main soloist and lots of friends (and not one centering on a guest artist) can include a vocalist, a brass group, a wind group, and a string group. There is a great piece (very dark) for tuba and timpani.

Good programming offers your listeners a pallet of sounds and prevents what I have always called "monochromatic, monotonal monotony."

Our own Charlie Ortega played a Bill Bell tune with a rhythm section from one of the UNT Lab Bands with a xylophone (like on the recordings) and he even sang the crap out of the song and had girls planted in the audience to run up and collapse screaming at his feet while he sang.

There is a very hard piece for bass, tuba and piano by Wilder.

We are not in a position to really just do tuba or euph solo or with piano. We NEED to add to this as it just gets bland and a lot of the music sounds so similar. (And so much of it is so BAD! We have some very fine pieces, but they get played to death, as noted earlier in this thread several times.)

I have donned my asbestos underpants. Flame away.

Let me say that I am in complete agreement with you. Case in point, earlier this year I had the job of recording a viola studio recital, (my job is as a recording tech with the SoM up here at UNI.) After 2 hrs(!!!) of viola and piano, I was looking for something to stab through my eye and out till I hit light. And, might I ask, what is the piece for tuba and timpani that you mentioned? (you had me at "very dark"!)

[David Zerkel]

Interesting topic...

For recitals, I always make an effort not to repeat performances of pieces that I've already played. This can make programming a challenge, but I figure there is an awful lot of music out there to be learned. I'm currently programming two recitals for this semester- one on CC and one on F.

Here is the big tuba program:

Bach- G minor Gamba Sonata
Gubaidulina- Lamento
Spillman- Four Greek Preludes
Hartley- Sonata #3
Davis- For the Funk of it
Broughton- Sonata (Before you bust me on the Broughton, at the ripe old age of 44, I have never performed this piece!)

The F program is still a work in progress, but looks kind of like this:

Eccles- Sonata in G Minor
Schumann- Fantasiestucke
Karlsen- Sonata
Corwell- Venetian Canival Animals

All of these tunes are new to me, but obviously not new to everyone.

I hear Wade (and others) loud and clear on their reluctance to embrace the tuba as a solo instrument. I'm always happier playing the tuba in an ensemble, but since I don't have a regular ensemble outlet, in the words of Crosby, Stills and Nash, I'm forced to "love the one you're with." The reasons that I do solo recitals are because they stretch me as a musician and my students should probably hear someone playing the tuba.

Although I know that Joe frowns upon "Gubment Perfessers at Kollege" playing to a dozen people in a "Fancy Gubment Opry Hall", it's what I do in order to keep my musical wits about me. I'm fully aware that nobody's existence is enhanced by me playing a recital other than my own. I publicly apologize to Joe for making the working citizens of the state of Georgia pay for this self-indulgence.

When it is time for a student to prepare a recital at school, my first question is always "Are there pieces you really want to play?" I love it when they say "Yes! X, Y, and Z...". A recital should be representative of the player's musical and intellectual interests. In the case that a student says "Not really", it is not my responsibility to decide for him or her what it is that they like, but rather what it is that will round them out as a musician, given their musical and technical skill set. Many times that means standard lit.

So, to the original poster, find music that turns you on on all levels and play it well. Your audience will appreciate it and you will have taken another step in developing your own identity as an artist.

[David Zerkel]

I just felt like poking you a bit! Seems like we need to spar on this topic at least once a year!

[quinterbourne]

If you're in college, try working through all of those "standards" such as the RVW, Hindemith, Gregson, etc. in your 2nd/3rd years, so you can choose lesser known works for your 4th year grad.

[sloan]

Although I know that Joe frowns upon...

1/ You're already there, your salary covers what you're doing, and your school (unlike some) has a huge (free) bonus with a virtuoso player on board...ie: He who CAN, teaches.

2/ the "tuber-star" to which I was referring: I really was trying to point out how LITTLE he was paid, and how FEW actually attended his recitals/concerts...not really anything about "gubmunt waist". (The "free admission" comment was a poor attempt to point out that fact that "EVEN THOUGH admission is free...etc.)

3/ I've heard you play, and there is absolutely no need for your school to bring in surrogate "fariners" to play flashy recitals...unless you just want to...

bloke "who likes playing solos, but isn't sure that there's anyone out there who really wants to listen to me do it"

I suggest a poll: how many people would rather hear bloke play than read more of his posts?

[TonyZ]

I have been programming a lot of non-tuba music for my recitals to fill the musical gaps. I have programmed Brahms and Mahler, lately, and also Alan Hovanhess. I've been accused of ignoring the actual tuba literature, but I'd rather play an arranged Romantic era work than muddle through the myriad "Neo-romantic" works out there. I'll get to them eventually, but since Mahler wrote great music, I want to do that first. I always tell my audience that he "meant" to write it for the tuba! I have to agree, though, that students should get through the standard rep. literature. Who knows.....you MAY actually get called to solo with someone and there are only a couple of pieces they'll know. You'd best have them under your fingers! Find good music, and play it!

[KevinMadden]

While reading this, I thought that there really needs to be more division of the things we are talking about. I don't think that you can compare Professional recitals and Student recitals, they occur to achieve different goals and the people involved have different needs. The student recital, it needs to be stressed, is for academic and technical growth, while the professional recital can be focused more on promoting the Tuba as a solo instrument and being entertaining. The original post concerned itself with how much a shame it is that most of the tuba recitals are the same. Well, lets face it people, the tuba is only 160-ish years old, and it came out well after composers were writing 100s of pieces in their careers. We don't have tons of concertos by Bach Mozart or Vivaldi like some other instruments. We do have the VW, the Hindemith, the Gregson, etc. If a student were to go all through college and not play the standards what would happen at the first audition they tried to take? "Oh, I need to play Encounters and Vaughan Williams, well I've never heard of those pieces, I wish someone had played them ad nauseam so I knew them forwards, backwards, and upside down after my 4-year $160,000 education" To say that tuba players shouldn't focus on the standard concerto rep is akin to saying tuba players don't need to focus on The Ride, or Petrushka, or Prok 5, those are worked a million times by ever college student too right? Our rep isn't great, but its there and as students of tuba we should know it. If you're a pro, and you've payed a lot of your dues play whatever you want to. If you don't like the Gregson ( I happen to really enjoy the piece) don't play it, play some jazz, or arrange some Tangos or some rock tunes if thats your thing, but as a student a player needs to learn and play the standard stuff.. its what tuba players do.

[TubaRay]

If those pallets you pictured are near your place, Bill, I'm coming over tonight.

[tubafatness]

As I said in the original post, I am by no means saying that the standard repertoire should not be studied and performed. I was stating that, in my opinion, it seems like tubists as a whole tend to move toward a fairly uniform set of pieces and musical styles. I see this trend most often in college players, but I have seen it in other areas, (including, I hate to say it, within a good chunk of well-established professional tuba players.) I think that tubists should branch out, and do more to develop our instrument as a true solo instrument. Again, it's just my opinion...

[OldsRecording]

If those pallets you pictured are near your place, Bill, I'm coming over tonight.

There's something about a gal operating heavy equipment...