Returning player seeks horn advice

[bort]

Welcome back!

Maybe this would interest you?
viewtopic.php?t=25190

[TubaRay]

Welcome to TubeNet, and to returning to playing. You will find there are many others on TubeNet who have a similar story to your's.

As for a horn recommendation, I believe your best bet is likely to be the Miraphone 186. There are quite a few of these around, and can usually be found(used) for under $5K. The King 2341, linked above, is also worth considering. There are certainly other possibilities, but in my opinion these would be the best place to start.

[scottw]

BASICALLY WHAT RAY SAID, ESPECIALLY THE WELCOME PART! I'LL SECOND THE OPINION RE: THE 186---YOU CAN'T GO WRONG WITH ONE FOR THE TYPE WORK YOU DESCRIBE, AND THE PRICE IS RIGHT.

TYPING FLAMERS: I JUST HAD FULL-FUSION SURGERY ON MY RIGHT WRIST, OK? THE CAST MAKES MUCH MORE JUST ABOUT IMPOSSIBLE!

[Rick Denney]

To the point, my questions for you all are:
- how much might I expect to sell the Besson for?
- am I even likely to find a buyer for this instrument?
- about how much can I expect to find a used 1291 Bb for, and where?
- in the meantime, what might be a lower-priced alternative to the Miraphone with the same qualities? The VMI 3301 & Cerveny CBB 6834 look the most comparable. I also remember fondly the Conn 5J which I played in school for a couple of years.

Going in reverse order: The VMI 3301 is an outstanding tuba, and you can often find them used for an excellent price. The King 2341 is another option--even the old-style 1241 with the tall, removable bell would be a good choice for your circumstances and much less than your budget.

It's also hard to beat a Miraphone 186 for a returning amateur. They are easy to play, have excellent intonation, great projection, and some character in the sound. You can use them for any of the activities you are considering. Even if you find a used one in slightly battered condition, parts are available and they are relatively easy to repair.

Play a 1291 before completely falling in love with it. I find that it requires a good supply of air, and before I was Holtonized (which also takes a lot of air), I found that the Miraphone 191 and 1291 required just a bit more than I had.

If you buy a second choice, make sure you buy a used one in good shape. It will be worth as much when you sell it, and later you can mix it with a little more money and trade up to what you want.

There are always buyers for used instruments if they are priced appropriately. The pricing is the key. If the Besson plays at all, you'll sell it in a minute for, say, $500. If it's pretty, you'll get more. You might have to wait for the right buyer to come along to get as much as, say, $1500. The correct price is somewhere in between.

Rick "who also restarted after eight years using a Besson Stratford--23 years ago" Denney

[BavarianFanfare]

I agree with Ray and the others. A really good used 186 would work well. They are well made, comfortable to play, durable, reasonably priced, and if you ever had to purchase parts, they are relatively easy to come by.

[Alex F]

All the suggestions given above are fine. I might add the VMI2103, the Cerveny 681/686, and the new MW "Howard Johnson" 2011. The HoJo, geared towards jazz work, comes in both top action and front action valve configurations and can be purchased from Roger Lewis at the Tubadome in Elkhart, IN.

As you've figured out by now, there are no music stores in Chicago or the close suburbs that carry tubas in stock. WWBW in South Bend is the closest along with the above mentioned Tubadome. I would strongly suggest contacting Roger: he often knows about good quality tubas for sale around here.

Good Luck.

[Alex F]

Not to be ignored is our own "For Sale" section. There are two King 2341s posted for sale right now at very good prices.

[Normal]

My section mate in the concert band (55 members) I play in has both a VMI 3301 and a HoJo. I play a King 2341. The HoJo (played by him) does not have the projection or the range that the two other tubas have.

I think the HoJo is a good tuba for smaller groups or stand up gigs (its lighter), but for overall playing in concert band or small orchestra I'd take my King or the VMI. I can't get him to give me the VMI so I guess I really like my King.

[iiipopes]

I did receive a message about a 186 with detachable recording bell for sale. Is that very common with the 186?

Not now. They were made in the mid 60's through the early 70's to compete with the Conn and King (and Reynolds, and Olds, and a few more, but you know what I mean) bell front tubas then popular with concert bands. Since I have my souzy, I really never use my recording bell. I had every intention of getting a bell tenon for it and getting it running (the old tenon was taken off of it to fit to the upright bell instead of getting a new tenon for the retrofit bell). I have a gig bag that fits it perfectly with the retrofit St Pete upright bell, and I really never take it off except every so often to polish the bell.

If I get a gig with a biergarten band I'll probably get the 186 recording bell up and running post haste. But the chances of that happening where I live are slim and none.

We had the Kings with upright detachable bells in high school.

Either is a great choice for a community band, and they are both about the same cost used in great shape, @ $3000 to 3500.

[Rick Denney]

...Clearly one can't fail with a 186, although it has a longer bell. I didn't mention earlier, I don't own a car so my main transport for the horn is either bike trailer or borrowed car...making that extra foot a real consideration.

The detachable-bell Miraphones are not that common. Make sure you get one with the bell you need--finding a replacement will be difficult and you'll probably have to have something made.

For your requirements, I might lean in the 186 direction. Yes, it's taller, but it's actually easier to tote around. The 20" bell on the King actually makes it hard to carry. If you put it on your back, the instrument isn't tall enough to get the bell over your head and the bell is too wide unless it is. A Miraphone in a Chronkhite bag will have the bell above your head and the body will fit close on your back. My Miraphone 186 weighs about 18 pounds, which is light for a 4/4 tuba.

If you buy a 186 that is old enough, the bell will be even narrower. They've added an inch or two to the bell diameter over the years.

The Kings have a rounder tone than the Miraphones, but the Miraphone might be able to cut through better. From a playing point of view, you can't really go wrong with either but they are quite different.

Rick "who has backpacked tubas on a bicycle before" Denney

[The Big Ben]

...Clearly one can't fail with a 186, although it has a longer bell. I didn't mention earlier, I don't own a car so my main transport for the horn is either bike trailer or borrowed car...making that extra foot a real consideration.

The detachable-bell Miraphones are not that common. Make sure you get one with the bell you need--finding a replacement will be difficult and you'll probably have to have something made.

The recording bell models are really wide. There was one listed on Ebay last week and I considered it but, as Rick points out, you need to get the bell you want. I'm looking to replace my King 2340 (with recording bell) for a number of reasons and one of them is that it is kinda ungainly with the recording bell and the two case solution is heavy. My brother accused me of being a bag lady when I showed up at TubaChristmas with my two cases in a shopping cart to bring 'em in from the parking lot. I passed on the recording bell 186 because I would have needed to get an upright bell and the total cost (and hassle) involved would not be worth it to me.

Have you considered a 3/4 horn? I posted a question a few weeks ago with the topic '3/4 with big sound'. You might want to have a look at it because there were some good ideas. (Use the search function.) A 186 would be OK but consider that a 3/4 horn might do the job also and be easier to carry on foot or via bicycle.

Search on the HoJo also- there was a thread about those about a month ago also. I think one of the posters had actually played a HoJo quite a bit.

Just some ideas.