Besson New Standard Euphonium - Low Pitch

[ParLawGod]

I recently bought a Besson New Standard from someone online, and the seller did not mention that the horn was low pitch (and of course I didn't think to ask).

I have a gig on Friday that I NEED the horn for so I have to take it in this afternoon and get the main tuning slide shortened.

Anyone have any experiences with this? How did it turn out? Did you just get your main slide shortened, or did you shorten them all?

The horn is in great shape (just needs a fourth valve valve cap and a valve lever) and has a great sound...the pitch is just too low for my needs.

Any insights on this subject would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

[Rick Denney]

I recently bought a Besson New Standard from someone online, and the seller did not mention that the horn was low pitch (and of course I didn't think to ask).

I have a gig on Friday that I NEED the horn for so I have to take it in this afternoon and get the main tuning slide shortened.

Have you played it? "Low Pitch" in the British sense is usually normal pitch for the rest of us. High Pitch was the different one. In the pre-1929 era, low pitch might be a bit low, but often isn't.

Some would insist that the tubing must be unsoldered from the instrument (and crook) and cut on a lathe. But I think that depends on the treatment at the edge. If it has a rolled edge like a lot of old Bessons, then you want to remove tubing from the end of the tube where it soldered into the valve branch. That keeps from messing up the rolled edge. If it's a straight edge, I think you can cut it with a fret saw, and then use a fine flat file to dress it square. It should take a technician about an hour or so, and much longer if the torch is required.

The trick is finding one with an hour to devote to you at short notice.

My Besson New Standard euphonium is low pitch, and it does play a bit low (with me playing) using a Schilke or Bach mouthpiece. But using a Steven Mead mouthpiece, it's dead on pitch.

Rick "not able to visualize the slide openings on the Besson" Denney

[ParLawGod]

Hi - yes, I played it this morning. The main Bb is about forty cents flat. The tuning slide edges are rolled as well...darn!

I got a hold of a repair tech. a few minutes ago. He said bring the horn in and he'll look at it. He did not make any guarantees though, but mentioned he has done things like this before.

I've got my fingers crossed.

Thank you for the replies thus far, they are greatly appreciated!

[sungfw]

Have you tried a different mpc? As Rick's post implies, some mpcs (like Wicks and SMs) fit deeper into the receiver, which can raise the pitch noticably. An alternative to switching mpcs would be to have the shank of your mpc turned down. (Or maybe a small shank mpc and teflon tape.)

Not sure either will get you 40 cents, but it may get it to the point it's lippable.

[iiipopes]

Before you have the horn cut, have your tech make sure there are no obstructions or leaks, and then try it with different mouthpieces. They can all cause a horn to play flat, as the leaks have done on my Besson (I have the leaky joints wrapped with removable lead tape until I decide if I want to have them fixed "properly" on my tuba.)

Besson low pitch for New Standard instruments is A=440, so there is no reason from a simple manufacturing standpoint your horn should play flat.

By contrast, high pitch for brass bands and military bands was @A=452, a quarter step sharp.

[ParLawGod]

The mouthpiece I use is a Doug Elliott XT series I/I8 mouthpiece...I don't have an interest in switching mouthpieces.

I'll make sure to ask the tech. to check for leaky joints.

[imperialbari]

Part of the problem might very well be the small receiver of the pre-Sovereign Bessons.

I have tried such instrument with my PT-50 (large shank). I could play it up to tune, but the ranges became uneven. The mid trough low was marvelous. The very high range was OK, but the mid-upper range was erratic.

The instrument in question was a band instrument used at rehearsals to save transportation. I preferred to schlepp my York Master whenever possible, as it worked much better.

Since then I have bought an instrument like yours, for which I bought a Denis Wick #1 non-L, which is the optimal off-the rack thing for that tuba. That combo is the only one allowing me to get the double pedal Bb.

If I get to use all of my BBb’s at the same time I might invest in a small shank PT-50. If you want to stay with your current mouthpiece, you should get the variant with a small shank.

I would not have the instrument cut until I had settled on a mouthpiece set-up expected to last. And certainly not until my playing on a given instrument had been worked through thoroughly.

In general I am playing a bit sharper than one would expect from a given set-up. But when getting a new instrument I more than once have experienced being flat until my playing had adapted.

Klaus Smedegaard Bjerre

[tofu]

[ParLawGod]

Thank you for the replies so far.

As for me changing mouthpieces...unlikely. I am primarily a trombone player (and I play Doug Elliott mouthpieces so I can use the same rim on all my trombones and euphoniums). I have tried Denis Wick and Steven Mead mouthpieces in the past (at least a dozen mouthpieces on about a half dozen horns I've owned and/or played) and I never like the backbore and throat. Since I am primarily a trombone player the Doug Elliott I/I8 cup and shank always give me the sound I want (and so far I am getting the sound on want on this horn...so far) - I use a G/G8 on tenor trombone and a C/C0 and C/C2 on alto trombone, my jazz tenor, and double-bell euphonium. This makes playing multiple instruments on one gig a little easier for me. Does that mean I won't change? No, I just feel it is unlikely as I use a set of mouthpieces for all of my horns. I could look into a different shank...but time is an issue (as I need the horn on Friday).

I took the horn in this afternoon and there were two leaks in the horn, and a little leakage from the spit valves (one of which I noticed earlier, but didn't think it would make a 40 cent difference). The tech is fixing those for me for tomorrow, and I am going to go back and try the horn. I will probably end up getting about an inch chopped off the main tuning slide anyways just to give me some "wiggle room" - in case I have to play in cold weather or something like that.

I'll keep you all informed - thank you again!

[iiipopes]

I can tell you that the leaks in my horn did make a 40 cent difference. I also agree the Wick 1 is the optimal mouthpiece for it. But since you are a trombone player, a Wick 2 would work, as it feels more like a Bach 18, and a Wick 3 would work, as it has a deep cup, open throat and backbore, but is a little bit smaller in cup diameter so it should not feel so different from your bass bone mouthpieces. I have a band director friend who plays bass bone, and when he doubles on his M-W 11 he uses a Wick 3 with the regular shank (3L) and sounds very good on it.

[ParLawGod]

Good news!

The leaks have been fixed, as well as port alignment of the valves...oh, and it got a good flush! The horn is now back up to 440 and plays perfectly in tune (with the tuner that is) with the slide pushed all the way in.

I did some extensive playing on it today and it was great! What I plan on doing (as soon as Doug Elliott is making mouthpieces again) is get an I8 shank that is a little shorter. This should give me the "wiggle room" I am looking for, in case of cold weather, etc.

Thanks again for the help! It definitely saved me from "chopping up the horn."

[imperialbari]

Congratulations on saving a situation, where there was an urgent time factor!

[iiipopes]

Glad it worked out! Play on!