Meinl 6450 or Nirschl York?

Kory101 · Post by **Kory101** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 10:53 am

Hello all,

I've been looking into getting a bigger horn. I stumbled upon some money and have a budget to go "all out" so to speak. I currently play on a YCB-861 CC tuba and a YFB-822s. I couldn't be happier with my F, but I really want to get a bigger CC. I've been looking into a couple and have narrowed it down to 2. The Meinl Weston 6450 "Baer" or the Nirschl York copy through Floyd Cooley. Does anyone own either of these horns or have tried them and want to give some feedback about them? Thanks!

tubacdk · Post by **tubacdk** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 12:12 pm

They're both good tubas, I like the Baer better. The Nirschl Yorks vary from horn to horn... I've played only two and they were quite different. One was excellent, the other was just so-so. The Baer is more a big 5/4, the Yorks being full 6/4s. Other than that, the Baer and the better of the Nirschl Yorks I have played were pretty similar. I just prefer 5/4 horns to 6/4 horns. If I was going to go for a tuba bigger than my 4/4 Nirschl, the Baer would top my list.

bububassboner · Post by **bububassboner** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 1:35 pm

Hey Kory,
Well they are both great horns so it all depends on your playing style. If your the kind of guy who has a bright, colorful sound I think the York copy would be the better fit for you. But if you have a darker sound and want to brighten it up and have that BIG tuba sound the Bear might be for you. As said above the Bear is a smaller horn so I won't have the same size of sound. But whatever you do TRY BEFORE YOU BUY. The Nirschl's do very from horn to horn so if you should try a couple Nirschls before you make up your mind. Plus remember that the leadpipe angle is different from the Bear to the Nirschl so one might be harder to hold than the other. But don't just listen to us go out and try them. If your going to spend $19,000+ on a horn you can spend the extra $200+ to go out and try it yourself.

bttmbow · Post by **bttmbow** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 6:11 pm

Nirschl's York copies are quite good; I have played on a few of them that I loved, but also a few that I had no use for.

That being said, getting used to playing a 6/4 tuba does take some time, so don't buy something in a sense of urgency! Make SURE that you enjoy playing that PARTICULAR horn (a lot!) before you buy something that is just not for you.

All horns of a particular design will vary slightly or greatly. I have found the Nirschls to be more in the "greatly" dept. than the MW 6450 tubas. I have played on four of the MW horns, one of which I use as my main CC. I would have no problem with borrowing one of the others, if my horn needed repairs; they are consistent enough for me! (On the other side of the coin, if a great Nirschl was available to me, I might be tempted!)

Good luck!

PM me if you need more thoughts.

Chris Hall
METoperaNY

Kory101 · Post by **Kory101** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 6:09 pm

Im going to be in New York around the end of August. I was wondering if anyone has either of these horns to take them for a possible test drive?

greatk82 · Post by **greatk82** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 6:15 pm

I would also consider this, based upon reviews of some top players.

viewtopic.php?t=25572

Lee Stofer · Post by **Lee Stofer** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 2:16 pm

On the way back from Washington, DC yesterday, I stopped by the Tubadome and visited with Roger Lewis for a while. While there, I tried one of the Alan Baer model CC tubas.

It is a really intelligent design, combining a really good sound with really good intonation and flexibility. Their decision to make it a little smaller than the traditional American 6/4 size was a good one. The result is as if a 6/4 went on a diet and exercised, producing a really strong, hardbody big tuba. The low range was fine, as expected, but the mid' and upper ranges are exceptional. The model I played was one of the handmade versions. I didn't try a machine-made one, but I'd think that they would be a good choice at their price point, too.

If you try out a Nirschl tuba, check the fit-and-finish. If it was actually made by Herr Nirschl, it will be a great tuba.

When purchasing a tuba, I would suggest asking where the instrument was made, and by whom, if that matters to you.

Kory101 · Post by **Kory101** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 7:15 pm

I've been emailing Alan Baer asking him a bit more about his horn. He was telling me that lots of pros are dropping their Nirschl's and going for the new Handmande 6450. Anyone actually done this?

Kory101 · Post by **Kory101** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 1:32 am

Thank you for your advice. I just figured it would be nice to hear what other people think before I go try. We have a great resource here at Tubenet. We can talk to other musicians around the world and get their view on things. I dont think there is anything wrong with my inquiry. Im simply wondering what professionals who are out there think. It kinda felt like you were biting my head of there. Sorry if that wasn't what you meant.

Wyvern · Post by **Wyvern** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 4:17 am

Kory101 wrote:I just figured it would be nice to hear what other people think before I go try.

Surely that is what TubeNet is for? To get others views from their experience. It is one thing to try a tuba in a shop - something very different to use in real life concert setting. Do not be put off "Kory101"!

I have also heard that professionals are changing their Nirschl for a Baer. It would be interesting to hear directly from those players what made them decide to change - intonation, sound, ergonomics, or whatever?

As we are talking about BAT's here, when you do go to try, it may be worth you seeing if you can play test the tuba in a large hall, or outdoors. In my experience BAT's sound very different in a large space, to a smallish room. They need space to open out.

FWIW I get really frustrated playing my Neptune in a room with a lowish ceiling - it so muffles the sound! If have a gig/rehearsal in such a setting I will use my 4/4 PT-20 which is not so adversely affected by the confined space.

kingrob76 · Post by **kingrob76** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:23 am

FWIW, Baltimore Brass has two handmade Baer 6450's sitting in the "showroom" as of last Thursday with no claims on them. yet. I've never played the machine made version but I've played 5 of the handmade ones and they are all exceptional instruments and very consistent from horn to horn.

Meinl Weston seems to be doing a decent job at making these available to the public, something you can't really say about the Nirschl or even the Yamayork.

Rick Denney · Post by **Rick Denney** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 2:49 pm

Neptune wrote:I have also heard that professionals are changing their Nirschl for a Baer. It would be interesting to hear directly from those players what made them decide to change - intonation, sound, ergonomics, or whatever?

I do not fall into that category by any means.

But I know what I like about the 6450: It is the most efficient big tuba I've ever played. Every note seems to leap out of the instrument.

This may be what interests professionals. In the early days of my engineering studies and career, I put down my Keufel and Esser slide rule and my Smoley's Four Combined Tables and picked up a (much more expensive) calculator. Slide rules are elegant and force the user to understand some critically important principles, such as significant figures. BUT (and you knew there would be a "but") the work was so much easier and faster with the calculator than with the slide rule that it was just imperative that I switch.

Were I a professional tuba player, my goal would be producing the sound closest to what is being paid for for the least cost, in terms of effort. This is where the Baer really shines, in my view.

I have not played a Yamayork but I've played all the others, including my own Holton (which ranks pretty high among the possibilities, despite being a Bb and despite requiring some significant work to correct construction sloppiness). The Holton makes a lot of sound for a given air supply, but it's still work to nail the pitch. The Baer is the easiest big tuba to play of the big tubas I have played.

Rick "speaking for himself only" Denney

Rick Denney · Post by **Rick Denney** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 3:14 pm

Kory101 wrote:Thank you for your advice. I just figured it would be nice to hear what other people think before I go try. We have a great resource here at Tubenet. We can talk to other musicians around the world and get their view on things. I dont think there is anything wrong with my inquiry. Im simply wondering what professionals who are out there think. It kinda felt like you were biting my head of there. Sorry if that wasn't what you meant.

Don't be offended--no insult is intended.

Pros mostly make their own decisions for their own reasons that may or may not be applicable to the next young'un who is trying to emulate them. You may not even be a young'un, but your question was similar enough that it triggered the standard (and correct) response. To most of us old farts, players at the level of contemplating a $20,000+ tuba ought to have a clear idea of what they want, and not base their decision on how many top pros have switched to this or that. Several top pros switched to the Yamayork when it came out, too. Several switched to the Nirschl. Several switched to the Gronitz. Several switched to the various incarnations of the 2165. Some switched to the Neptune. Some found happiness only with an instrument converted from something else. Many switched to the Yorkbrunner back when they were new. They all had their reasons, and their reasons were often highly personalized and refined. The guys who are selling their Nirschls to buy a 6450 are finding other guys who are happy to buy their Nirschls, and they had their reasons, too.

Knowing what you want from a tuba like this is part of the entry fee, even if you aren't a top pro, and even if the money is not an issue.

Rick "thinking advice sometimes comes in the form of a warning" Denney

Kory101 · Post by **Kory101** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 3:12 am

Im going to be in Ottawa for the summer and was wondering if anyone has either of these horns that I would be able to test drive? Thanks very much!