Help....possible blown lips UPDATED question on my last post

pulseczar · Post by **pulseczar** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 2:02 am

Ibuprofen, or NSAID of choice.

If you have class at 8-11, warm up at 6:30.

bearphonium · Post by **bearphonium** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 7:55 am

Early a.m. warmup and buzz your way to rehearsal. Yes, its early, yes, it will kick your butt for a time, yes it will be worth way more than it "costs".

Ally"who normally works night shift, but is curently on days which starts at 0600"House

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 9:09 am

I have a community band director that is becoming enamoured with the same type of repertoire. Last season: Whatsoever Things by Camphouse, and this season, a setting of the Kaddish by MacBeth.

Self preservation. No repertoire is worth blowing yourself out. If you've reached your limit, then that's it. If he wants more and it's beyond the physical limitations of the section, tell him. If that doesn't work, tell the low brass professor. If that doesn't work, tell the department chair.

Finally, after a couple of diplomatic shrouded comments about such, at the last rehearsal we played. He asked for more. The section gave all it had. He asked for even more. I played softer instead. He got the hint, turned to the rest of the brass and said that's as big as it gets, blend into it.

MartyNeilan · Post by **MartyNeilan** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 9:29 am

Read some of the posts by others in this thread.
viewtopic.php?t=21773

MikeMason · Post by **MikeMason** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 10:02 am

I think there is an analogy here with weightlifting,though not a perfect analogy due to the different type of muscle involved.You are overtraining.Google it.You'll get weightlifting stuff but I think it could be pretty informative for you.You probably need to take 3 or 4 days off.At the end of rehearsal Friday,don't play another note til warm-up for rehearal Monday.Let the muscle fibers heal.In my opinion,you probably should play xbox all weekend and not even thing about music at all once in a while.You can overtrain your brain too...

Mike(no danger of overtraining here)Mason

brianggilbert · Post by **brianggilbert** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 10:38 am

I think the problem is compounded by having to go from "zero-to-60" with shortened warmups into a full rehearsal.

I know back in my drum corps days, we took a lot of extra time during the spring and early summer months to 'ease' into warmups with lots and lots of long tones and pedals. It doesn't sound like your schedule affords that luxury of time.

I agree with everything stated earlier. I would add that maybe playing long low tones later in the evening might help loosen you up for the next day, increase circulation, promote healing, etc...

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 1:01 pm

VoiceOfReason -- you are out of line. I'm sure he is doing a proper warmup and is trying his best to do what the conductor wants, or he wouldn't be posting.

We are talking physical limitations here, and risk of permanent injury, not lack of desire, fortitude, nor attitude.

I encourage you to apologize or otherwise moderate or retract your post.

MaryAnn · Post by **MaryAnn** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 2:57 pm

My only comment has to do with the getting up earlier to warm up. To do that...ya gotta go to bed earlier too! Sometimes, if you have roommates, that involves an eye mask and earplugs.

MA

tubatooter1940 · Post by **tubatooter1940** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 3:13 pm

tubashaman,
Damaging your mouth by attempting to give your director what he wants does neither of you any good.
If you can't deliver the volume without tissue damage, you need to discuss amplifying your tuba with your director. Alls you need is a $100 Schure SM-57 on a tripod stand and an amp with a 15 inch or larger speaker located where you can reach the volume knob. You could locate the mike where you can lean into it during passages where you need the help.
I play in a 3-6 piece trop rock group. I used to route my microphone through the main board and then out through all the main speakers. I still do in a very large venue. In smaller rooms like night clubs, hotel meeting rooms and even some fairly large convention centers, I have had more luck running tuba only through one 300 watt EON self -powered speaker with the horn turned all the way down and the 15 running about 50% volume. This lets me balance the bass with the rest of the sounds I hear in the room. This frees the main p.a. system for treble instruments and vocals without being bogged down by bass. I get to have total control of my volume and late at night when the lip is tired, I can crank the EON and play softly.

hurricane_harry · Post by **hurricane_harry** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 4:12 pm

practice playing softly. like really soft. it will help you to play louder and longer

my 2 cents

ken k · Post by **ken k** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 5:52 pm

take a day off.

eupher61 · Post by **eupher61** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 8:26 pm

iiipopes wrote:VoiceOfReason -- you are out of line. I'm sure he is doing a proper warmup and is trying his best to do what the conductor wants, or he wouldn't be posting.

We are talking physical limitations here, and risk of permanent injury, not lack of desire, fortitude, nor attitude.

I encourage you to apologize or otherwise moderate or retract your post.

No, James said he has no time to warm up before the rehearsal, and implied that he doesn't do any warm up before his classes either.

Maybe the tone was terse, but VoR's message was right on.

sungfw · Post by **sungfw** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 8:36 pm

iiipopes wrote:VoiceOfReason -- you are out of line. I'm sure he is doing a proper warmup and is trying his best to do what the conductor wants, or he wouldn't be posting.

Excuse me, but I could have sworn:

tubashaman wrote: I cant warm up, everyday I have class from 8-11:30, and dont get to the band hall till 11:45, band starts normally after I get my instrument out, so no time for long tones really

WakinAZ · Post by **WakinAZ** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 9:45 pm

As always, James...where...is...your...teacher? ...seriously.

iiipopes, there are only two mods on this forum, and you are not one of them - relax. I'm sure James is used to wearing his flame-retardant pj's when he posts on here instead of practicing or sleeping.

Eric "feeling that ACU should pay the TNFJ a stipend" L.

Chuck Jackson · Post by **Chuck Jackson** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 10:02 pm

Eric "feeling that ACU should pay the TNFJ a stipend" L.

Brother, you said a mouthful!!!!!!!!!!!

See you SUNDAY.

Oh yeah, James,take a couple of days off, go out on a date, get away from the computer, live a little, ask your teacher, have a beer, go stare at the horizon, listen to something that doesn't have a tuba in it, play "capture the flag" in your local Wal-Mart, visit an old person at a local rest home, read a book, get enlightened, brush up on your Sarte, your spelling, do your laundry, in short GIVE THE TUBA, AND YOUR BRAIN, A REST.

Chuck"not short of begging for the obvious"Jackson

KevinMadden · Post by **KevinMadden** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 10:04 pm

Got to agree with the early morning warm-up suggestions.

I don't have class until 10, but get in at 8 each morning for an hour long warm-up with the trombones and it has increased my abilities to do just about anything on the tuba dramatically. Trying to jump into hard rep without a warm-up is a dangerous and unwise thing. What time does your music school open in the morning? maybe 7-ish? get up, head down, play some long-tones and flexibility exercises (in a pattern of ascending difficulty of course) warm-down, and head to you other classes. you'll feel like a million buck come ensemble time.

Chuck Jackson · Post by **Chuck Jackson** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 10:08 pm

Sorry for complaining geesh

Um, actually, you are whining.

Really, James, when it boils down to it, you are. Your chops hurt, so what, everyones do at times. Man up, please. I have reason to whine. I have Focal Dystonia, my career is over. Want to trade problems? I'd love to have a young face again. I'm not going to, I've moved on, in fact Eric(WakeinAZ) is buying the last of my 5 tubas this weekend. Want to trade heartaches? Get in line.

It's not that I wouldn't like you if I met you, but, man, you gotta help yourself.

BTW, never apologize for where you are going to school. It sounds bad.

Chuck

EuphDad · Post by **EuphDad** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 10:12 pm

It's not a new story. Young and talented musicians who haven't learned their limitations, think their bodies are indestructable, and want to please their directors by giving 110% at any cost and suffer injuries.

Percussionists are told not to play so hard as to damage their
drum heads, but are brass players ever told not to damage their chops? As long as composers continue to push the envelope with pieces that push the musician louder and higher and beyond what should be reasonably expected and directors are more concerned with the music presentation and not the ramifications on the physical condition of their players, occupational and potentially career ending injuries will occur.

Fortunately, most older musicians have learned their limitations and adapt - as many have advised. Unfortunately for college students, there are few advocates for their well being, and they need to learn to recognize their limitations.
Work with your professor - there may be alternative ways to blow and approach your instrument that are less physically demanding. Have your professor talk to the band director. But in the end, it is your body that you need to protect,
and their is no one better to do it than you! No piece is worth the risk of injury. Good luck!

Chuck Jackson · Post by **Chuck Jackson** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 10:35 pm

S"sending some good thoughts and love to CJ right now"T

Thanks, brother, but life is good. I get to teach and work with some of the best kids in the west. I'm taking an incredible youth orchestra to Europe, am conducting Beethoven, and have a full and lovely life. I miss the back row more than ANYONE could imagine, but I am there in spirit. So, next time you lay it down low, loud, and proud, give me a thought 'cause I'm there with you.

Chuck"blessed"Jackson

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 11:51 pm

Point taken. It's just that it's one thing to disagree, even strongly, and quite another to go over the line to a personal attack.

Most jury boxes have two rows of seats. Time for me to go sit on the back row now.