Big BBb Piston Tubas still being made

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 4:36 pm

Here is a link that lists the links to all the tuba manufacturers I know of (except, of course, Kalison is no longer), so you can see for yourself:

http://www.brass-forum.co.uk/Links/Manu ... bsites.htm

Also, don't forget the larger and largest Rudy Meinl in your list!

And if you have the money, Herr Walter Nirschl will make you anything as large as you desire.

pwhitaker · Post by **pwhitaker** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 4:44 pm

My 1291 BBb 5 valve currently listed at Dillons with MTV hard case and extra 5th valve slide (sharp 2+3). Horn is a little over a year old and plays very well. Found a Rudy 5/4 BBb which I prefer, hence the sale.

Jeffrey Hicks · Post by **Jeffrey Hicks** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 5:56 pm

Don't forget the Kantsul

Lee Stofer · Post by **Lee Stofer** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 5:58 pm

I agree that one should not limit the search to just new instruments. There are some vintage instruments out there that have a sound and soul to them that can only rarely be matched by a new horn - and sometimes this can be had, and good pitch, too!!!

As far as new instruments are concerned, there is only one 5/4 BBb tuba made in the USA, the Kanstul CTU900-4B. This instrument was built using the measurements of the old Martin Mammoth tuba tapers, although it is wrapped to look quite different. The Martin-esque combination of a very moderate bore size, then having the tapers grow into a very large tuba, makes this instrument respond and feel different from just about anything else on the market. The instrument is designed in a modular fashion, with a removable leadpipe, bell, and valveset. In a step beyond Fred Marzan's idea of a main tuning slide that can be used as a tuner while playing, the Kanstul 4/5 BB has two main tuning slides, one stationary, and one on top, near the upper branches, that moves like a trumpet 3rd slide. I think that the upper 4th slide that has about 14 inches of pull has a lot of potential, as it makes an in-tune 1-2-3-4+long pull low B-natural feasible, and everything else in the low register. The "tune-any-note" main tuning slide is long-enough to afford a 1-4+main slide pull low Eb.

This instrument is the closest thing to a vintage large American piston BBb tuba that I know of.

Ace · Post by **Ace** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 8:03 pm

Try this one:

http://www.amati.cz/english/production/ ... b_691g.htm

Rick Denney · Post by **Rick Denney** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 8:39 pm

TubaJoe92 wrote:Im looking for tubas still and I want a big BBb Bat or 5/4 that are still currently in production.

Here are some I am interested in:
MW Fafner
Cerveney 693
Gronitz PBK
Miraphone 187

Are there any you know of:

Also PLEASE Post pictures if you have one of the above models

Thanks

There are many new options with rotary valves. The Fafner is a great rotary kaiser tuba, used in Germany as an orchestral instrument for big works. The Rudi Meinl 5/4 is nearly as big as an American 6/4. The Cerveny 691 that I tried at Dillon booth at the Army conference was a winner--an excellent large tuba. Even the slightly smaller Miraphone 191 plays large.

With pistons, the options among new instruments are more limited. The Miraphone 1291 is one, though it's not really a BAT. The Willson 3100 is closer to BAT, but I find the ergonomics of the instrument terrible, providing no comfortable or useful position for the left hand. I also find the sound from the Willson to be distant. It may get out front just fine, but the feedback I get when I play one isn't great. The Holton, which is a bigger instrument, feels smaller in my hands and larger in my ears.

There are great old tubas. There was an excellent Conn 34J Orchestra Grand Bass at Lee's booth at the Army Conference. Just play F at the bottom of the staff 1-3 like Conn intended. And of the Bb Holton 345 tubas, I've found more good ones than bad ones though they are all different. For the cost of a Rudolf Meinl 5/4 or a Willson, bought new, I could have my Holton overhauled to like-new condition and appearance, including what I initially paid for it.

Rick "for whom 'piston' + 'new' = 'Willson', but who prefers the Holton" Denney

J.c. Sherman · Post by **J.c. Sherman** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 9:09 pm

The Fafner is amazing - Yasuhito Sugiyama (sp?) has used his several times with the Cleveland orchestra - great sound on Bruckner!

J.c.S.

J.c. Sherman · Post by **J.c. Sherman** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 9:40 pm

I remember hearing about these in the early '09s. They were the "Hilgers" models, and they are based on a tuba which was supposed to be as famous in Germany as Jake's Yorks are here.

Never seen one of these in this country. I drool every time I see one on the web.

J.c.S.

bttmbow · Post by **bttmbow** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 9:48 pm

As far as BIG BBb tubas go, your options are probably limited, if you like compliant behavior response-wise and pitch-wise.

That being said, the MW Fafner is a great horn, and 6/4 in bell size.

Also, the Miraphone 1291 BBb plays very, very well; I just played the two at Dillon Music today (one is used, one is new). The new one has a larger fifth valve than the older one, but both were VERY nice.

Other than those, I would go for the old YBB 641, not the newer version.

Go BBbs!!

CJH

WakinAZ · Post by **WakinAZ** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 9:53 pm

My former 187:

This horn is not a BAT, just a larger 4/4 horn. I responded to a separate thread you started a couple weeks ago specifically about this horn: viewtopic.php?t=25691&start=0&postdays= ... hlight=187

Eric "the healing will begin on Sunday with a new axe" L.

armytuba · Post by **armytuba** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 10:06 pm

Don't forget this one. I think I had the only PT-605 at the TUSAB tuba conference but could be wrong. Nice, large 4/4 BBb:

josh_kaprun · Post by **josh_kaprun** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 12:25 am

So, after reading some of the posts above, I think that I must be a freak or something because I found the Wilson 3100S to be perfectly ergonomic for me. After I got it on my lap, it was very well balanced and my hands just naturally went to the correct positions. In fact, now that I have an Eb, I have officially started saving my pennies for the 3100S. The weight would have been a problem for me, but now that I play with a stand, I'm really not worried.

I think the best thing to do is to go to ITEC and spend a day or two just going from room to room playing on all of the different BBb's they have there (which will be quite a few), narrow it down to 2 or 3 that you like, and then see if you can take each of those horns into a practice room or something so that you can really get to know each of the horns...then, choose the one that works best for you.

Wyvern · Post by **Wyvern** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 4:00 am

With rotary valves there is also the Cerveny 601(yellow brass)/701(red brass) Kaiser BBb

<img src="http://lh6.google.com/Jonathantuba/R6wY ... 01.JPG"></

They really can make the walls shake!

A less expensive alternative to the Fafner.

FWIW When I purchased, I did compare with a Fafner. I thought the Cerveny played 90% as well for half the price and in red brass the 701 is stunningly beautiful.

eupher61 · Post by **eupher61** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 7:07 am

PISTON valves were specified in the OP.

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:41 am

Yes, but since the selection of BAT piston BBb horns is so small, the thread has expanded.

WakinAZ · Post by **WakinAZ** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 9:52 am

Also, most of the horns listed by the OP were rotary, so everyone just kind of went with it. Who doesn't like to talk about big BBb tubas?

btw I tooted on a BBb 1291 last week. Maybe it's because I've been only using my little Olds for a few weeks, but my immediate impression is that it is a large heavy horn. Definitely creeping up on 5/4 if not a "true" 5/4. Can't speak to how it played as I didn't have time to really try it out too much.

Eric

MikeMason · Post by **MikeMason** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 10:18 am

Original posters get the ball rolling but they can't really control where the ball goes after that.Just part of the charm of our beloved tubenet...

The Big Ben · Post by **The Big Ben** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 11:22 am

Le Elephant commented last week about a 21J cheep on DaBay with the idea of getting a 24J 4v, trading out the bells and pimping out the resulting '25J' to make an American BAT....

What about the Kanstul 5/4 BBb horn? Lee Stofer has one for sale for $4.75K used. It has pistons. Anyone play one?

J.c. Sherman · Post by **J.c. Sherman** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 11:48 am

The Kanstul looks cool -wonder if he's gonna build a CC version as well - I'll bet that would get him some business, making an affordable BAT CC!

J.c.S.

Rick Denney · Post by **Rick Denney** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 12:37 pm

josh_kaprun wrote:After I got it on my lap, it was very well balanced and my hands just naturally went to the correct positions.

What is that position? I'm not challenging you, but I'm just curious--I could not find a comfortable or useful place for my left hand. It was impossible for me to reach through to the first-valve slide (which is higher on the 3100 than on the 3050), and reaching over would really have required an arm with two elbows. The backside of the instrument was just empty, and I clawed the air looking for a way to hold the instrument with my left arm, other than just grabbing the outer branch. What does your hand naturally fall?

I looked at the pictures of the 3100 and the 3050 on the Willson site, and frankly I think they are the same picture, though one is displayed upside down and the contrast has been altered. Maybe someone can point out the differences I'm not seeing, but there ought to be two extra feet of tubing somewhere.

Rick "remembering that the 3100 seems a lot taller than the 37" claimed on the website" Denney

TubeNet

Big BBb Piston Tubas still being made

Or ...

Re: Big BBb Piston Tubas still being made