Car Maintenance

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Todd S. Malicoate
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Post by Todd S. Malicoate »

mTaUrBkA wrote:The auction company actually has a warranty too that if there are any problems they will pay for repair or will take the car back and refund the customer completely
I truly hope you bought a vehicle with no major problems and don't have to count on the warranty to bail you out.

I also hope you're not naive enough to believe that "any problem" you have with the car will entitle you to a full refund. Who decides what is a "problem" and what isn't? What kind of time-frame are you allowed for "problems" to surface?

I've been involved in many, many auctions such as this and have never heard of such a "warranty" being offered, particularly on a seven year old vehicle.

Oh, and unless you know the local Saab dealership mechanic personally and trust said person explicitly, be aware that they have a vested interest in you keeping the vehicle, ESPECIALLY if it has "problems" (who do you think will get the $$$ to repair the problems?).
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Post by mTaUrBkA »

The dealership is extrememly respectable. My family has bought several vehicles and have had work done there on various cars over the past 30 years. The vehicle also passed inspection about 2 months ago when it was repossessed by the bank. The period that the company gives us for having a mechanic look at it is 30 days....even if there are a few minor problems we got a good enough deal to spend some money on repairs. I think we will probably replace the timing belt just to be safe, because to repair that after it breaks is much more costly usually.
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Todd S. Malicoate
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Post by Todd S. Malicoate »

How many miles are on the vehicle? If it's over 100,000 you should definitely have the timing belt replaced...it's regular maintenance at that mileage interval.

I'm assuming you have the 2.3 liter 4-cylinder engine (most Saab 9-5 wagons do), but both that engine and the 3.0 liter V6 are interference engines. This means that if the timing belt breaks while the engine is operating, Mr. piston meets Mr. valve and violent engine damage results. Mutliple bent valves are inevitable, and you are correct that this is much more costly than a timing belt replacement.

I'm glad you and your family has a good relationship with the local Saab dealership, but now I'm a little confused why you would need the TNFJ opinion on whether or not to buy one.

It does sound like you have the right idea, though, having a trusted mechanic look at the vehicle. Your post about the warranty made it sound like you thought you could get a full refund for the vehicle for any problem.
mTaUrBkA wrote:The auction company actually has a warranty too that if there are any problems (emphasis mine) they will pay for repair or will take the car back and refund the customer completely
They will not pay for repairs...if the problem is bad enough (faulty transmission, blown engine, etc.), they will refund your money and have the car fixed to be sold again later. You will pay for the timing belt replacement, as well as any other regular maintenance items or minor problems you find. If you are very lucky, the previous owner kept good maintenance records in the vehicle's owner manual (assuming it's still there).

Repo auctions for vehicles are almost always "as-is" in my area...I'm amazed you got the limited agreement from the auctioneer that you did.
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Post by sungfw »

Todd S. Malicoate wrote:I'm glad you and your family has a good relationship with the local Saab dealership, but now I'm a little confused why you would need the TNFJ opinion on whether or not to buy one.
mTaUrBkA wrote:My family has bought several vehicles and have had work done there on various cars over the past 30 years.
"Several vehicles" and "various cars" does not necessarily mean "several/various Saabs."

In this area (and in Toronto, where I lived previously), a lot of car dealerships sell several, unrelated makes (e.g. Michael Jordan Lincoln Mercury Nissan").
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Todd S. Malicoate
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Post by Todd S. Malicoate »

sungfw wrote:"Several vehicles" and "various cars" does not necessarily mean "several/various Saabs."

In this area (and in Toronto, where I lived previously), a lot of car dealerships sell several, unrelated makes (e.g. Michael Jordan Lincoln Mercury Nissan").
It is possible the OP is talking about a dealership that sells/services Saabs and a variety of other makes, but those other makes are probably other "upscale imports." Rarely do you see a Ford/Lincoln/Audi dealer, or Chevy/GMC/Saab, etc. Dealerships have to pay big bucks to get the added import make for their business, and it's often a big hassle for them, unless they can move a large number of those imports. Honda, Nissan, and Toyota, yes...no so much for Audi, Saab, Porsche, et. al.

That being said...
mTaUrBkA wrote:I am looking at several used cars locally, but does anyone have experience with maintence on saabs or audis. I realize that they can both be pretty pricey to maintain and fix, but does anyone know how or have any experience on how they compare for maintenance prices? I have been looking at some other things like a ford taurus wagon as well, however from my research it seems as if an audi or saab will live a substantially longer life.
was the original question. The appropriate response, with the information we NOW have, would be...

Ask the folks at the local dealership which sells Saabs (and also, possibly, Audis?) about them. I'm sure they have a great deal of experience regarding how those vehicles compare for maintenance prices.

Don't you agree that the above advice is much more helpful (and practical) than "I had a Saab once...great car...go for it!"?

Todd "who thinks the Taurus wagon would have been a much better choice, ESPECIALLY for a longer life" S. Malicoate
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Post by mTaUrBkA »

Todd S. Malicoate wrote:How many miles are on the vehicle?

I'm glad you and your family has a good relationship with the local Saab dealership, but now I'm a little confused why you would need the TNFJ opinion on whether or not to buy one.
It has just barely over 100K on it. The regular manual came with the car, but the maintenance book that gets stamped and so forth unfortunately did not, however there were various repair invoices shoved in the glove compartment. At this point, as far as I know it could have a new timing belt (but I'm guessing if someone got their car repossessed for not paying the 16 grand they owed to the bank, they didn't have money to replace the timing belt) Luckily, that owner didn't own the vehicle for very long.

The saabs that my family has had in the past were mostly in the 70s and 80s, then my dad had a 98 saab 9-3 briefly. I wasn't sure how much had changed with newer ones, or how they compared to audis.
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Post by sungfw »

Todd S. Malicoate wrote:It is possible the OP is talking about a dealership that sells/services Saabs and a variety of other makes, but those other makes are probably other "upscale imports."
I'm sorry that I failed to specify that the citation of Michael Jordan Lincoln Mercury Nissan as a multi-company dealership was intended solely to illustrate via a single example that such dealerships do, in fact, exist, not as an example of makes that would potentially be partnered with Saab. I sincerely apologize for failing to make that clear, and will take pains to make my intention clear when citing examples in the future.
Don't you agree that the above advice is much more helpful (and practical) than "I had a Saab once...great car...go for it!"?
No, I don't, because:

a) "I had a Saab once ..." does not address the OP's question; and

b) as YOU YOURSELF wrote:
Todd S. Malicoate wrote: Oh, and unless you know the local Saab dealership mechanic personally and trust said person explicitly, be aware that they have a vested interest in you keeping the vehicle, ESPECIALLY if it has "problems" (who do you think will get the $$$ to repair the problems?). [emphasis mine]


It is a truism that if one is more likely to receive a less biased answers from those who have no direct vested interest in a question than from those with a direct vested interest in the question.

Even if a person already has a relationship with the local dealership, it's in the dealership's direct financial interest that that person buy one of the cars the dealership services rather than a competitor's car, so while the dealership may steer you away from a particular model or particular models, it is unlikely that it will warn you off the entire lineup.

Car owners, OTOH, are significantly less likely to have a direct vested interest in whether or not someone else buys the same make of car that they own, nor are they likely to have a direct vested interest in someone else's maintenance and repair costs.

In light of that, even if the OP generally trusts his local dealership, it is in the OP's interest to seek information from Saab and Audi owners that will either corroborate or refute the dealer's answer.
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Todd S. Malicoate
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Post by Todd S. Malicoate »

sungfw wrote:I'm sorry that I failed to specify that the citation of Michael Jordan Lincoln Mercury Nissan as a multi-company dealership was intended solely to illustrate via a single example that such dealerships do, in fact, exist, not as an example of makes that would potentially be partnered with Saab. I sincerely apologize for failing to make that clear, and will take pains to make my intention clear when citing examples in the future.
You were perfectly clear, but you were trying to make the point that even though the OP has a relationship with a dealership that sells Saabs, that doesn't mean the previous cars his family had purchased/serviced there were also Saabs. I simply pointed out that, for the most part, most Saab dealerships are exclusively Saab...when they're not, you almost always only see Saabs paired with other similar "upscale" imports (if you don't believe me, go to www.saabusa.com and search for dealerships in your area)...so, even if his family had purchased other makes from that dealership, they were likely other similar type imports. Besides, the OP confirmed that the other vehicles were, indeed, Saabs.
sungfw wrote:It is a truism that if one is more likely to receive a less biased answers from those who have no direct vested interest in a question than from those with a direct vested interest in the question.

Even if a person already has a relationship with the local dealership, it's in the dealership's direct financial interest that that person buy one of the cars the dealership services rather than a competitor's car, so while the dealership may steer you away from a particular model or particular models, it is unlikely that it will warn you off the entire lineup.

Car owners, OTOH, are significantly less likely to have a direct vested interest in whether or not someone else buys the same make of car that they own, nor are they likely to have a direct vested interest in someone else's maintenance and repair costs.

In light of that, even if the OP generally trusts his local dealership, it is in the OP's interest to seek information from Saab and Audi owners that will either corroborate or refute the dealer's answer.
Apples and oranges...my quote about the vested interest of the dealership was in reference to a mechanic at that dealership helping the OP decide whether a specific car was worth buying or not. In that case, one would need to be wary of the mechanic's motivations since it would profit him/her to get a "questionable" vehicle in the hands of a future repair customer. If you don't think this happens every day in the real world, you should come work with me for a week...even in the parts business, I see this happen often.

I stand by my contention that the original question, about maintenance costs of Saabs and Audis, could be best answered by a dealership that services those vehicles frequently. A smart consumer might call the parts department of the dealership and get some prices on regular maintenance items for various models (or even look them up on the internet, since many parts stores now offer such a feature online).

OTOH, a random poll of "folks" out here on TubeNet only gives the OP a few examples and not a broad understanding of maintenance costs. Let me illustrate further:

TubeNet poster #1 once owned a Saab 900 turbo that he still thinks was the best car he ever owned. All he ever did was keep the oil changed every 5000 miles and it purred like a kitten for 200,000 miles.

Tubenet poster #2 thinks you should buy an American car because the damn Europeans are stealing all our jobs, and the Euro is destroying the value of the American dollar.

TubeNet poster #3 currently drives a 2003 Saab 9-3 with a V6. She is on her third transmission, and the car has an annoying squeak that three mechanics haven't been able to find.

TubeNet poster #4 posts a joke about his Hummer and a picture of food.

I could go on, but I think you get the idea. Trusting a multi-thousand dollar vehicle purchase to advice gleaned from strangers on a message board devoted to the tuba is folly. Getting advice on forums devoted to Saabs and Audis is a better idea, but still shaky ground, IMO. The best unbiased information, as MaryAnn pointed out in this thread, is found at the library (and online?) via Consumer Reports.

It is also a truism that one must consider the source, biased or not, when considering advice.
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Post by Sally Larsen »

I suspect it is all about the availability of competent help and parts.
I own Volvo 240's because that is where the repair expertise in my community is (and, by the way, they are almost perfectly sized for tubas.)
My kids are experiencing less than stellar response to their "old car" questions as they move away, but they are learning a great deal about how to do it themselves.
All four 240's have over 200,000 miles and are daily drivers. Buying a car is a big investment, but if you think of it as an investment of time, rather than money, you just might have fun.
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Post by Rick Denney »

Audis are over-engineered, and everything fits together just a bit too precisely. Our A6 wagon went through two sets of front-end bushings and tie-rod ends in 90,000 miles. The front splash shield fell off if you looked at it crooked. The passenger window regulator died. The headlight adjustor had to be repaired, and that required a trip to a specialist in an adjacent state. This was my wife's car--it was driven quite gently.

Such things happen. But the parts were in the exotic price category and the things that broke could not be repaired with aftermarket parts. The A6 was hard to work on and the engine compartment was designed for aesthetic appeal rather than easy maintenance.

My '84 and '87 Audi 5000's were engineered to be owner-maintained and they were relatively easy to work on. But they had their issues, too. I put 175,000 miles on the '87, and did all the work myself, including such projects as rebuilding the power steering rack. There were a lot of projects.

I've never owned a Saab but descriptions I've heard put them in the same category of over-engineering Yurrupean car as the Audi. They are great cars, but they require comprehensive and frequent maintenance. Highly recommended for a three-year lease.

But if you are buying a car that you will own until the wheels fall off, then get a Toyota or Subaru. That will put off the wheels falling off for many, many years. Mazda, Honda, and Nissan are a close second, but still second, when it comes to being designed for reliability. The American cars that fall into that category are rare indeed, but at least used ones are cheap to replace.

Rick "whose Toyota/Subaru fleet of four vehicles currently totals 505,000 miles" Denney
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Lew
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Post by Lew »

My daughter is driving my 97 Honda CRV that I originally bought to haul a few tubas around. It has over 150k miles on it an has never had more than normal maintenance (the most expensive of which was replacing the timing belt at 105k miles). It gets around 27MPG and is very easy to drive. I don't like the looks of the new ones as much, but I found it a very reliable tuba hauler.
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Post by windshieldbug »

2001 Saab 9-3
MSN User Reviews
8.7 Overall Rating


9.0 Styling
8.9 Performance
8.8 Interior
8.4 Quality
8.6 Recommendation
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Post by Captain Sousie »

If you like consumer reports, remember that they gave a good rating to the two most recalled cars in history.

In cars as in tubas, buy what you like. If you like to tinker with cars and have the advantages of knowing that if you can replace certain parts regularly you will have a great car with relatively few major problems, go with one that does that (notice I don't put brands in because the maker usually means very little in the overall picture of the model). If you want a car that has the possibility of exploding when rear-ended but will run forever, go with that one. If you say "go with the Taurus, it is the best car in the world." remember that in certain years, there were ignition problems that caused them to catch on fire. If you say "go with the Saab" Which year? which model? If you don't like them, was yours a lemon or typical of the brand/model? You don't like Volkswagen then, what about Brazilian VWs vs. Mexican VWs vs. German VWs? Have you even checked with a specialist mechanic for each brand you are looking at and gotten an opinion on the specific year and model that you are looking at? Audi then. Which years had the bulletproof 5 cylinder truck engine and which ones had steering that gets mushy no matter how you drive them? Anybody here other than me know the answer to that one?

Moral of the rant? Go ask a specialist mechanic (not a dealer one but an independent one) for information on the pros and cons of the exact model and year you are looking at. Who knows, they might just have a Subaru wagon that they can tell you the exact history on (because they have done ALL the repair work on it) that gets 30+miles to the gallon, does great on snow and costs $1000 (that one was from experience).

Have fun with that one.

Sou
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Post by Captain Sousie »

Oh yeah, I almost forgot. I lived in a town of 20,000 people and knew a specialist in every brand/model within a 75 mile radius and a custom shop that could get you any part you wanted that was about 180 miles from my house so don't think that if you live in a small town you can't follow some of the advice above.
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