I play tuba with my mouthpiece WAY off-center. It feels correct like this. When I try to play with my mouthpiece in the center, it is uncomfortable and negatively affects my tone and articulation.
I have been told that I should start trying to get my mouthpiece in center. Is this necessary meaning it will help my playing in the long run, or is it just something that will make me look better when playing?
Last edited by Tubaing on Wed Feb 27, 2008 8:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I think this is perfectly fine. Sure, it looks kinda strange, but, as the adage says, "Whatever works, works". If it feels good, and you have great sound, then just keep it on.
It might be good to talk to some trumpet players about this. As I understand it, they have their own "spots" for playing.
Centering will help your playing in the long run. Playing on center now sounds bad because you're not used to the new muscles that are being used. You'll have to embrace the suck in order to get better.
Adjunct Tuba Professor, Christopher Newport University
Eastman Artist
This might be just a bad mouthpiece match for you....
looks like a conn 2... perhaps this is a question for your private tutor (assuming you have one) and if not, you might want to see if you could get a lesson at a nearby university with their tuba professor, they could give you some tips and suggestions, and be able to give you the best advice in your situation... without being able to hear you, it is hard to give you advice
Daniel Knox
Band Director
Cannon School
Concord, NC 28027
The comment about air is fine, but musculature is more important.
Trumpet players do often play off center (ha!) but their mouthpiece is 1/3 or so the size of yours. No matter what mouthpiece you're using, playing tuba off to the side as dramatically as you are, you're not getting the vibration potential from your chops. That affects flexibility, range, tone, pitch, articulations, everything.
It will suck to change it, but if you plan on doing anything after HS, change NOW. Get yourself into some lessons with someone who knows what they're talking about.
Stuff you can do to help yourself out:
Use a mirror to keep checking yourself out (your CHOPS, your Chops!!!!!!!)
Do a LOT of buzzing. If you don't know about that, find someone who does and listen. It may be the best thing ever for your playing.
Use a mirror to check out your chops, to keep the mouthpiece centered.
BUT, YOU NEED A TEACHER! Someone with knowledge can help you make the embouchure transition now, and make it once (with luck). If you do it all on your own, you may end up doing something almost as whacky but centered. net result--better looking chops, but still not the best sound you can get.
Tubaing wrote:I asked my private lesson teacher and he suggested I ask you guys (TBFJ).
posted within a minute before my response was posted, and REFERRING TO MOUTHPIECES. Read the post yourself.
I did discuss mouthpieces with my private lesson teacher, he said it worked very well for me. And the teacher I had before him also said the Conn 2 worked well for me.
I was just suggesting that there might be a mouthpiece out there that has a better rim diameter... maybe a different diameter would be more comfortable centered.
Daniel Knox
Band Director
Cannon School
Concord, NC 28027
That being said, Yosef's post makes me think that there COULD be another mouthpiece rim CONTOUR or DIAMETER that would be more comfortable for you, as you move your embouchure towards the center. Just keep in mind that the embouchure change is ONE change, and a new mouthpiece would be another change. It usually takes a good while to get accustomed to a new mouthpiece, same with an embouchure change, so...
Maybe you could go try some mouthpieces at Quinlan & Fabish (if they are still there), and just see if any of the mouthpieces seem to let you play with the mpc. in or close to the center. Or, go to Woodwind/Brasswind to try some and have Roger Lewis help you find what you need.
Maybe, after you have played a bunch of different stuff for a few hours, you'll pick up your old mpc., put it in the center, and "Bingo!"
I hope Roger, or some others will chime in,
because my typing is not so good!
Feel free to PM me, if necessary.
Chris Hall
METoperaNY
I had to completely change my embouchure half way through high school. I though "hey, it works for me now, why change?"
Band director said "do you just want to play, or do you want to get better?"
It sucked to make the change. I sounded horrible for weeks. I cheated and fell off the wagon and every now and then I would go back to playing my old way but I always kept trying the changes I was told to make. Slowly, the changes began to become the norm and I realized it was the right thing to do because it greatly improved my tone (I no longer sounded like a trumpet player playing a tuba).
Take your time and make the adjustments little by little. Just keep at it. Give yourself more lip to work with. Unless you have facial structures that prevent you from playing the normal way, you should try to at least get a little closer to center. It doesn't have to be perfectly centered (I'm not, btw), but I'm sure the closer you are, the better off you will be in the long run.
Marzan BBb
John Packer JP-274 euphonium
King 607F Posting and You
It is not necessary for your lips to be centered. But it is necessary to make the best possible sound, the cleanest articulation, and the greatest accuracy in support of the most musical result. And then you want to do that without depending on crutches such as pressure or manipulating the musculature outside the embouchure (I do both--and pay the price in results). The off-center embouchure may or may not be a crutch, but there's a different way of thinking about it.
The question is: Will such a severely off-center embouchure give you the best chance of achieving those goals in future years? Possibly. But it's more likely that playing with a more centered embouchure will get you closer to those goals.
Despite the running joke on Tubenet, you are too young to have a World Class Sound. Thus, you are too young to know if your off-center embouchure is holding you back. Bad habits won't hold you back much now--you have to get good enough so that you are chasing real subtlety before some of those habits really become a limitation.
But there are ways to get hints. Such as: Are there any world-class players with such an off-center embouchure? The answer is no. What might that tell you? What it tells me is that a more centered embouchure is more likely to get you to an optimum result in the long term, as it has done for all high-end performers.
All bad habits are comfortable. That's why they got to be habits. It takes specific effort to replace a bad habit with good practice, but the sooner you do it the easier it is.
There are possibly some other issues at play. When I met with Doug Elliott to tailor a mouthpiece for me, he suggested that I try playing a bit off-center. The reason was to account for a slight lack of symmetry in my face. Nobody's face is completely symmetrical. And I have an imbalance in my vision that causes me to tilt my head slightly to see better. But the amount of lateral shift I tried would not have been obvious to an observer, while yours is obvious.
Take that back to your teacher and ask him if he thinks you maximize your future potential by playing with such a pronounced shift. My bet is that, when put that way, he'll suggest you work towards a more conventional approach.
The mouthpiece is fine. It may not be the best, but then again it may be. You'll be trying out mouthpieces for the rest of your life--no need to get hung up on that one now.
Rick "whose bad habits were no big deal in high school, but are really limiting 30-odd years later" Denney
If you are getting a great sound and nothing is impairing your technical capabilities, NOTHING matters (even the puffing of the cheeks).
Sound is paramount. Visuals only matter to help diagnose a problem with the sound. Sometimes fixing what can be SEEN can fix what can be heard.
Tubaing, I asked about your teeth--there was a reason. The teeth are the "backing" to your lips and the placement of your mouthpiece. If your teeth are unusual (not straight, or you have some particularly large teeth, etc), then it may explain your mouthpiece placement.
Even though I just gave advice, I want to caution you (and EVERYONE) about taking technical advice on TubeNet. Basically, I DON'T recommend it! No one here has heard you. No one here has seen you play except for one small still shot. You have no idea who any of us are.... I say get a teacher that can answer your questions in person and work you through them--IN PERSON!
I hate to be the guy who asks, but... Why would your teacher tell you to ask an online forum? I don't know who your teacher is and I don't know the exact wording from him/her. It is my hope that is went something like this:
Teacher: Now that we've discussed your mouthpiece placement and decided that a change is required (or not required), feel free to post a question about it on that tuba site you frequent. At our next lesson, let's discuss what you've heard from those other players and teachers.
Student: Okay. Will do! Student exits stage left to practice and THEN logon to Tubenet.
I'm hoping it went something like that. Your teacher certainly has an idea as to how you should go about fixing the problem if indeed there is a problem. He probably just wants you to find that what he's already suggested is accurate.
To the poster: Please tell me I'm right and that at least one of us has already repeated what your instructor has already suggested.
Watch the video on windsongpress dot com's Arnold Jacobs Almost Live. There is a 7 1/2 minute video on The Embouchure that is quite informative about this subject.
A lot of good and sometimes conflicting advice has been given. My favorite bits of advice are this:
Dean wrote:Even though I just gave advice, I want to caution you (and EVERYONE) about taking technical advice on TubeNet. Basically, I DON'T recommend it! No one here has heard you. No one here has seen you play except for one small still shot. You have no idea who any of us are.... I say get a teacher that can answer your questions in person and work you through them--IN PERSON!
And this:
Rick Denney wrote:The question is: Will such a severely off-center embouchure give you the best chance of achieving those goals in future years? Possibly. But it's more likely that playing with a more centered embouchure will get you closer to those goals.
...
All bad habits are comfortable. That's why they got to be habits. It takes specific effort to replace a bad habit with good practice, but the sooner you do it the easier it is.
...the sooner you do it the easier it is.
Since I've never heard you play I have no way of knowing if your off-center embouchure is holding you back now or will hold you back in the future. I do know with some certainty that the longer you wait the harder it will be to change. Get some lessons with a good teacher. If he tells you to change your mouthpiece placement, Do It!
Amongst aviators it is often said that any landing you can walk away from is a good landing. It's an even better landing when you can reuse the airplane.
In addition to the advice offered above to adopt a more conventional placement, I will add this: It will take less time to correct this problem than you will spend explaining over the course of your tuba playing career why you play that way.
As far as a teacher who tells you to check the internet - find another.
A Conn 2 is about the same as a Helleberg 7B, so not exactly an all-around choice, but could be worse. Get a Kelly 18 and Kellyberg in colors that your sectionmates will like. Sell the 'piece that doesn't pick you to one of them.
Eric "who advises learning the rules before breaking them, unless there is a compelling reason not to" L.
Tubaing wrote:I asked my private lesson teacher and he suggested I ask you guys (TBFJ).
