Slipping into the wrong fingering!

[Wyvern]

As you can see from my signature, I have a wonderful collection of tubas in all four pitches, all of which I enjoy playing

However, I am having one problem which is rather worrying me - that is through some mental aberration slipping into the wrong fingering.

For example this evening I was playing my Eb and half way through the rehearsal I came in ff with CC tuba fingerings

It can happen any way, slipping into CC fingering on the BBb, Eb fingering on the CC, etc. It only requires a second mental lapse to happen. It does not occur every day, or even every week, but at all when in the middle of a concert is too much.

When it does occur, it does cross my mind that maybe it would be more reliable to keep to playing tubas in just CC (in my opinion the most adaptable pitch of tuba), but of different sizes (3/4 to 6/4). However on the other hand, having a choice of different pitched tubas (at a minimum, bass and contrabass) does provide greater tonal variety and other advantages to provide a better performance of the music (unless a mistake happens!).

Any thoughts?

Jonathan "who is maybe just getting too tired?"

[windshieldbug]

When this happens to me, I just look at the Bass Trombonist like he's from Mars, and the conductor will often yell at them...

[TubaBob]

Jonathan,

Jonathan "who is maybe just getting too tired?"

Get plenty of rest. When you make a mistake, don't freak out. It's a good thing to be human, unless your at a major orchestra audition.

I make the same mistakes. Sometimes, at rehearsals, I pause, look at the music, think about the fingerings for C tuba, and wonder,what's my name?

[cambrook]

pencil

(and eraser for afterwards:-)

[MartyNeilan]

This woud happen every once in a while when I was at school - I owned CC and F tubas but sometimes had to play one of the school's 186 BBb tubas (overseas concerts or something similar). I would scrawl in large letters on top of the music "BBb Tuba" and that would prevent the periodic brain fart from recurring. Don't be ashamed to write in pencil on your music - it is better than making the same mistake twice!
On another note, I will often include fingerings on certain exercises for beginning students (or even intermediate students, depending on the exercise.) When playing along on CC tuba, sure enough, I will glitch a note because I read the fingering on the page.

[Dean E]

When I started learning CC, I had the experience of BBb fingerings forcefully crawling up from somewhere in my brain where they had lain dormant for 40 years--when I last played in high school.

The psychologists call it negative transference.

[JB]

Been playing for quite a long time, and still have it happen every once in a while. Never expected, and I truly don’t think “more time on each instrumentâ€

[JB]

[quote="Greg"][quote="JB"]Been playing for quite a long time, and still have it happen every once in a while. Never expected, and I truly don’t think “more time on each instrumentâ€

[Eric B]

When this happens to me, I just look at the Bass Trombonist like he's from Mars, and the conductor will often yell at them...

That made me snort! That's the funniest thing I've read in a long time.

[JB]

JB
I don't want to get into an argument with you(I don't even know who you are!). Your tone in response to my initial post seemed quite rude and matter of fact. You may be right! However, for me, I don't know in advance when a mental lapse may occur(especially during times like Easter or Christmas when there is a lot of playing to do) and consequently, I cannot mark a part prior to the error occuring. My solution is to take preventative measures by reducing the number of keys of tuba fingerings I need to know fluently and by being as comfortable/adept as possible on the instrument for any situation.

You have a very good regarding switching instruments mid-piece. I agree that marking the part prior to playing the piece is wise. I wonder why you would not feel like daily maintenance would be important to a tuba player playing with than one key tuba?

Greg,
Nothing was meant to be rude or anything close to that; sincere apologies if my tone was taken that way. Certainly not the intent.

I think we are probably talking about somewhat different circumstances. I agree that it is somewhat difficult (if not impossible!) to mark a correction prior to an error taking place. Agreed. Sometimes, however, marking a single note that "could have the potential" is all that is needed to put one's brain on "heightened alert."

I'm not talking about stuff that is familiar or has been played before; often what I refer to is the type of "read it once and then perform" (or record) that I am speaking about; especially if rewrites/serious edits are taking place while we work. Or, for example, if suddenly needing to transpose what is in front of you "on demand" and using fingerings from another key of tuba to make the transposition work. (Such as using CC fingerings on F, or Eb on CC.)

Hoping that clarifies both the intended tone and also the perspective from which I wrote.

[JB]

I think we are essentially in agreement but pointing at different angles.

Yep! Looking at the same statue from different sides; precisely.

I do most of my jobs with one or no rehearsal and consequently, the pencil and advance preperation are necessary to avoid a loss of work!

There is the difference; you get the charts ahead of time, and thus can do the prep you refer to. Often I do not have that luxery; thus the approach (which works for me; ymmv) I described.

Same page (essentially) after all!


.

[JHardisk]

Advice that has been given to me by the best mentor I've ever had (Perantoni); This was regarding a few chipped notes in an ENTIRE concerto:

"Son, don't do that."

I think this easily applies to confusing fingerings. Just don't. Don't think about why, or how, or what key tuba you're missing fingerings. Just don't do it.

Paralysis by Analysis. Many of us are guilty...

Another famous quote to me was:

"Son, you're thinking too much."

Now, I make a habit of not thinking... It seems to work. Especially in the military.

[Wyvern]

Get plenty of rest. When you make a mistake, don't freak out.

I think that was probably the solution to my problem. I have been over doing it recently and got whacked out with these fingering slips being a side-effect.

The concert went great yesterday (got a real buzz) with no fingering slips

Jonathan "who must try to avoid quantity at the expense of quality"

[eupher61]

after you do it long enough, those slips become less and less frequent. I"ve bounced from BBb to Eb and back in the past 6 years, maintaining F all the time. The only real issues were on the Eb, not putting Eb fingerings onto F. F and BBb are almost error free, as far as fingering go, for me. I'm not saying there aren't other issues...

[Tom Holtz]

"Son, don't do that."

---

"Son, you're thinking too much."

Gotta love Mr. P. He's still The Man after all these years.

Fingering follies happen to everyone, including the trumpet players. Done it myself more times than I care to think about. Heard it happen to the best in the business. Just blow it off and move on.

[Lew]

I guess I am jumping on the bandwagon, but I find that making sure to spend practice time on the tubas I will be using helps prevent slipping into the wrong fingerings. I use Eb for most things, but use my BBb when I'm playing with the larger band in which I play or as the only tuba in an outdoor venue. For a while I had been only using Eb but decided to use my BBb for an upcoming concert with one group so started bringing it to rehearsal. I found myself having to concentrate on what was in my lap and still reverted to Eb fingerings a couple of times. Trying to play a C with 12 on a BBb horn is not pretty .

Now I make sure to take at least one practice session a week on a BBb just to keep the fingerings fresh, even though that's what I learned on and had played for most of my playing history.

The other thing that helps is playing in a brass band, with treble clef music. This forces me to think about the notes and not start zoning and playing by instinct. Being comfortable with the music is one thing, but I find that concentrating on being in the music helps prevent those little mental lapses.

[sc_curtis]

...my band director is convinced C tubas can't play in band in tune...

In tune is in tune. Perhaps you tried it in band when it was still new to you, and you hadn't worked out the kinks yet? Is it possible he just thought you played more in tune at that time on the 186 (which may have been true)? I say now that you have grown accustomed to your horn, give it another whirl in class. Perhaps you can just change his mind.

[jeopardymaster]

I definitely buy in to the suggestion of marking your part under the circumstances Neptune describes. One clarifier, though; IMO when you're straying from your "default horn" it's better to highlight the pitch, especially when the composer has used an enharmonic spelling - c flat, e# or even d#- and after modulations. I've been going through this on the Prok 5. Ever since I was an undergrad puke I've played the excerpts on a CC. Just a few weeks ago, in prepping for a performance, I discovered it's way easier on my BBb. However, in the practice room I laid some hideous eggs in really embarrassing places, hence the marks. The problem with marking fingerings on your part is, that usually only works with one instrument length. If you have to switch to another, your marks do you no good. Or likely the next guy, who'll think you're a complete idiot and maybe even try to look you up so as to administer a dopeslap. (O spare me the shame!)

[Wyvern]

I definitely buy in to the suggestion of marking your part under the circumstances Neptune describes.

I am afraid I don't buy in to marking the part with fingerings. The problem I have experienced has been temporary lapses playing a part which I may well have played correct several times previously. It may be just one note in a whole symphony, so I am not inclined to pencil fingerings throughout. Anyway, I think if one is looking at fingerings, then other marks of expression around the notes may well be missed.

My principle is to just mark in fingerings on any notes I repeatedly get wrong - but that is most likely to be through missing an accidental or something such like.

One exception to the above is when first learning a new key of tuba. This coming weekend I will be playing an F tuba in concert for the very first time (for the solo in Mahler 1). I may well pencil in the fingerings in that case, because I am still learning F, so fingerings are not deeply embedded with a high risk of forgetting under the pressure of concert performance.

Jonathan "who sees forgetting fingering as very different from a mental lapse in fingering"

[GC]

When I started playing again after a 26-year layoff, I bought a CC. I had only played BBb during my earlier playing days, but I knew CC fingerings and thought I only needed practice.

I never dreamed that my biggest problem would be that I was quite familiar with trumpet fingerings. I kept brainfarting back and forth from reading notes in bass clef and occasionally reading notes in treble clef, and it seemed to hit at the most inconvenient times. Looking at a bass clef A and playing a treble clef F is not the best thing to do.

So I switched back to BBb, had no more problems. Then I began playing both Eb tuba (in a band that uses Civil War era instruments) and playing in treble clef in a brass band. I rarely have trouble other than occasionally crossing up accidentals between the two.

I think I was stuck in BBb thinking because I automatically associated BBb fingerings with what I listen to. If I'm listening to music on the radio and I'm analyzing what I hear, I think BBb fingerings even if I'm playing a bass guitar. I have a friend who is a tremendous jazz pianist who also plays tuba, and he told me that he thinks tuba fingerings when figuring out what he's hearing even at the piano. It's what we start with that channels our thinking.