5th valve question

Blake Cooper · Post by **Blake Cooper** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 9:50 am

I know for a while there was an option with the PT-6's to add on some tubing to the 5th slide to make it the 2-3 config. It was just a slide extension. i don't know if they still do that or not.

DaTubaKid · Post by **DaTubaKid** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 2:49 pm

tubashaman wrote:I know someone with a PT6 (rotary) who has 2 slides, ones a flat whole step, the other a flat half step...

Flat half step? Are you sure it isn't the flat 2-3? It was mentioned above that the rotary PT6's have the additional tubing so that you can switch between flat whole step and flat 2-3, but I've never heard of a flat half step. Has anyone else seen this too?

willbrett · Post by **willbrett** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 7:43 pm

I dunno. I've never seen it on a PT-6, but the early 90's Cerveny 681CC (left handed 5th valve) I used to own was a flat half step. Not very useful... at least I didn't find it to be. I much prefer the flat whole step I've got now.

-Brett

Cameron Gates · Post by **Cameron Gates** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 8:50 pm

willbrett wrote:I dunno. I've never seen it on a PT-6, but the early 90's Cerveny 681CC (left handed 5th valve) I used to own was a flat half step. Not very useful... at least I didn't find it to be. I much prefer the flat whole step I've got now.

-Brett

I found it interesting that on 2 instruments I have played lately (an altered Rudy at Baltimore Brass and the HB6 at Tuba Exchange) the 5th valves were indeed flat 1/2 steps. Was this a popular choice at one time? Is there some sort of chinese fingering chart for these somewhere?

I would think that it was useful on the HB knowing that the original owner was a player with a great reputation who owned and used the horn for many years.

Anybody have insight on the super-important subject?

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 10:50 pm

I can see how on a BBb you might have a flat half step instead of a flat whole step, for BBnat and lowEEnat, especially since until only this last generation low F was all that was usually ever required of band literature, and then Eb would be 245 and be closer to tune with less lipping than either 14 sharp or 124 flat, D would then be 234, Db 2345 with less lipping or pulling than 134, (on my 186 I have to pull 1 almost all the way), C and B might even be playable, and then pedal BBb.

joh_tuba · Post by **joh_tuba** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 10:53 pm

I'm comfortable enough to get by on horns with the flat whole step but any horn I've ever owned I've gone to the trouble to have slides made to extend the fifth valve to the double whole step old miraphone set-up.

Keeps people from wanting to play my horns. Gives extra choices for fingering the pedal note AND I think it's a bit more in tune over all.

At the moment I own a PT6, PT, 3 and PT15. Those horns are easy to get extended slides for. The 6 and 3 came with an extension and if you dig around longer slides for the 15/10 are readily available.

I've also owned a MW2165. For that I had a slide made up by the guys at BBC. It came out a bit long and the wrong width(the design for that valve has changed a few times).. My horn wasn't there when they made it so they were guessing. Can't blame them for that. Once in possession I had to have it readjusted by my local repair guy. Turned out just fine. No longer own the horn but I still have the slide(just in case).

In the process of selling a MW 45S. For that horn I ordered crooks and tubes from MW and built an extention for the regular slide myself. Came out super nice. Buffed it up and baked on epoxy laquer. You can't tell it's not factory.. well I suppose you could compare the ferules. But from a distance it blends in nicely.

Soo.. as others have said most new horns come with the shorter fifth but it's not that insurmountable a problem if you want something different.

willbrett · Post by **willbrett** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 1:59 am

Bob1062 wrote:

I would think a flat half step valve would be more useful than a flat one step valve.

What (on a C tuba for example), do you play more? C# and low F# (2+4) or low F (and lower)?

Understand that my experience with a flat half step setup was limited to a horn that nearly refused to play anything lower than a low F... Perhaps a horn with an open, free blowing low register would work better with that setup than my Cerveny did. I basically played that horn like it only had 4 valves.
I love the fact that I can now play c#'s and F#'s EXACTLY in tune now with the 2, 3, 5 combo (where before with 2&4 I didn't have access to any slides to make it in tune).
Me personally... it seems like I come across more C#'s and F#'s than I do anything in the very basement of my range, so I'd rather be able to play those notes in tune.

with a grain of salt,
-Brett