Petrouchka (1947 version)

Wyvern · Post by **Wyvern** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 8:47 pm

I am wondering if most use bass tuba, contrabass tuba, or both to play the 1947 version of Petrouchka?

I have this coming up and was thinking to play on CC, using F for the bear solo. However looking at the part, I see there are only two bars rest before the solo, so really no time to change tubas.

I could sacrifice weight on the passage before the bear solo playing just that on F (and CC otherwise), or play the whole lot including bear solo on CC???

Interested in thoughts - experiences, before deciding!

Todd S. Malicoate · Post by **Todd S. Malicoate** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 8:56 pm

Play the whole piece on C...the bear solo should be boisterous, not light and fluffy, IMHO.

Biggs · Post by **Biggs** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 9:00 pm

Todd S. Malicoate wrote:Play the whole piece on C...the bear solo should be boisterous, not light and fluffy, IMHO.

Second. Make that bear growl.

Wyvern · Post by **Wyvern** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 9:10 pm

tuben wrote:Might only be two bars, but the pulse is quite slow so you might could make the horn change.....

It is still only about 12 seconds to put CC down, pick up F and get prepared!

Todd S. Malicoate · Post by **Todd S. Malicoate** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 9:19 pm

If I may ask, why are you considering playing the bear solo on F?

Granted, I've only played this piece once with a college orchestra, but I love the sound of the tritone in the higher register of the C tuba. I also find it easier to play on the C with the open D available - seems to me to pop out better that way.

Do very many professionals play this on F? It's not like it's uncomfortably high...

J.c. Sherman · Post by **J.c. Sherman** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 9:38 pm

The work was premiered in France when the little Tuba Ut was the prevailing instrument. The 1947 edition was not altered to revoice the part beyond adjusting for the reduced instrumentation. It's a small tuba part. I'd use F throughout to split the difference.

J.c.S.

Todd S. Malicoate · Post by **Todd S. Malicoate** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 10:30 pm

tubashaman wrote:Joel Puckett....dad used to be the principal tubist for the atlanta symphony

From http://www.mindspring.com/~rubyredsband ... or_puckett:

Tubaist Mike Puckett has been playing professionally since the age of seventeen. His 35+ years on the Atlanta music scene have included time with The Original Ruby Redâ€™s Band, The Raz'Mataz Jazz Band, Don Erdman's Hotlanta Jazz Band, Ernie Carsonâ€™s Capital City Jazz Band, Sammy Duncan, Peach Blossom, The Bourbon Street Jazz Band, The Southside Jazz Band, The Atlanta Tentet and Fanny Moonâ€™s Big Butt Band. Mike has also toured with Johnny Mathis, Henry Mancini and Clyde Beatty/Cole Brothers Circus. He was for many years the Principal Tubaist with the Atlanta Ballet & Opera Orchestra. Mike is a versatile performer who doubles Upright Bass and Euphonium. He is also an accomplished Arranger and Musicologist specializing in the study of early jazz.

Really, James...this stuff is pretty easy to check on.

Wyvern · Post by **Wyvern** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 4:02 am

Todd S. Malicoate wrote:If I may ask, why are you considering playing the bear solo on F?

Granted, I've only played this piece once with a college orchestra, but I love the sound of the tritone in the higher register of the C tuba. I also find it easier to play on the C with the open D available - seems to me to pop out better that way.

Do very many professionals play this on F? It's not like it's uncomfortably high...

Playing all on CC is tempting, but I am not convinced it is the right tone for the music which is really why I am asking for views before deciding.

I heard Gene Pokorny play on F in masterclass, so I guess bass tuba is the usual professional choice?

Bob1062 wrote:Do you think his MW Eb might work (surely modern trombones and all that)?

That is third option! However, there is a lot of low heavy stuff elsewhere where I think I would miss not using the BAT

cambrook · Post by **cambrook** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 6:51 am

It looks like you're becoming addicted to your BAT. I know what it's like, I've been addicted for years

Wyvern · Post by **Wyvern** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 7:14 am

cambrook wrote:It looks like you're becoming addicted to your BAT.

Is it that obvious?

Jonathan "who is trying to balance what he wants to play against being faithful to the music"

Mojo workin' · Post by **Mojo workin'** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 10:22 am

Do very many professionals play this on F?

I know that Dave Fedderly played the bear solo on a York Eb for the Baltimore Symphony Orchestra's recording. It is the most 'in-your-face' performance I've heard of that solo, his sound concept was quite bright and aggressive.

chhite · Post by **chhite** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 12:14 pm

In 1999, Mike Moore used his Shillke five-piston F and where I was seated in the "acoustically perfect" Woodruff concert hall, he nearly took my head off. We had a laugh about it afterwards and he also joked that if he had known that another tuba player was in the audience, he wouldn't have chipped a note in the solo. He had been experimenting with how far he could push the envelope and not get an ugly look.

MaryAnn · Post by **MaryAnn** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 12:24 pm

chhite wrote:In 1999, Mike Moore used his Shillke five-piston F... .

What? Shillke 5-piston F? Eekers! I've never heard of this tuba. Is it a one-off? Not-made-any-more?

MA

chhite · Post by **chhite** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 3:27 pm

Similar to a 3+1 Eb, just with another up top. These were the predecessors to the Yamaha 621 series tubas. Mike didn't use it for much else.

chhite · Post by **chhite** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 4:10 pm

I had to borrow that line from the Landmark Theater in Richmond, VA, formerly known as the "Mosque." They had an ad blitz in the late 80s/early 90s that claimed the hall as "acoustically perfect" and the best place to experience a concert. That place had sonic black holes in it. I could stand in three or four places in the seating area and not hear the person talking five feet from me...and that was when the hall was empty!

ZNC Dandy · Post by **ZNC Dandy** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 4:17 pm

I'll try to find whgere I read that Stravinsky himself wanted the largest tuba possible used for the "Peasant and Bear" It added the strained and grotesque tone quality he wanted to convey. This is paraphrasing of course.

Biggs · Post by **Biggs** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 12:43 am

tubashaman wrote:Oh wait, i should close this too being an idiot

Don't let me stand in your way.

Kory101 · Post by **Kory101** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 12:44 am

I do the Bear solo on my 822 F and it kicks butt!

Todd S. Malicoate · Post by **Todd S. Malicoate** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 1:53 am

tubashaman wrote:Oh wait, i should close this too being an idiot

Whoa, cowboy...nobody called you an idiot. You just got called on some misinformation you posted about Mike Puckett and what orchestra he played in.

For crying out loud, this is just a message board. You get corrected on some factual information so you delete your posts and play victim? I can only imagine what it must be like to instruct you in a tuba studio where the subject matter is more subjective.

If you are truly this sensitive to criticism, you should seriously re-evaluate your career path...soon, while you are still young enough to change your mind.

Wyvern · Post by **Wyvern** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 10:07 am

ZNC Dandy wrote:I'll try to find whgere I read that Stravinsky himself wanted the largest tuba possible used for the "Peasant and Bear"

Thanks for putting me onto this - I have found the post you remembered.

In 1954 I played that solo with Stravinsky conducting the Pittsburgh Symphony. I asked him what size tuba he preferred and he replied "for Russian Music the largest possible tuba is the best".

http://www.chisham.com/tips/bbs/may2001 ... 54765.html

If those are the words of the composer - that sounds pretty definitive!

Jonathan "who will play the bear on his Neptune with a clear conscience

"