Tuba Jobs

The bulk of the musical talk
Biggs
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Re: Tuba Jobs

Post by Biggs »

Rick Denney wrote:
Biggs wrote:The challenge isn't getting to 120, it's trying to find a way to get there without all of your classes meeting at 10:30 on Wednesday.
Look in your college catalog, and you will see for your major a list of required courses, plus requirements for elective courses. These are the requirements for graduation. At most universities, you have to follow the plan explicitly for it to even be possible, for a variety of reasons. Your scheduling conflicts are just one reason. Many elective courses are only offered once a year, and have prerequisites that are offered only once a year, etc. Those who get off the track have a hard time finishing in four years.

But there was an inflation in the number of hours required, and that inflation was what the legislature was trying to reverse.

Trust me when I say that an 18-hour load consisting of differential equations, physics of electricity, thermodynamics, fluid mechanics, environmental engineering (with lab), and finite elements structural engineering will consume more time than just about any course of study in music education. I'm not saying that to be flip or to downgrade music education--quite the contrary. It's just that courses that require the development of an abstract analytical intuition required hours of chasing rabbits down holes and starting over. When I took mathematical statistics, I attempted integrations that filled four 11x17 sheets sideways, written small, only to find after filling up that paper that I'd missed a sign early on that made all the nasty terms cancel out. Give me a history or educational theory text to read, a visit to the library, and a short essay to write ANY DAY for getting it done in time to actually sleep.
I completely agree with your statement that a course schedule composed of engineering courses will be more time-consuming than a music education track. As a music major, I am always amazed by other music majors whining about, for example, a single five-page research paper about a classical or romantic composer. This assignment is a pittance, especially when compared to the weekly loads of problem sets, discussion questions, and laboratory reports I completed in lowly Principals of Chemistry I. Chemistry doesn't come naturally to me, but I think it is an interesting topic and a great way to broaden my horizons and fulfill a GenEd requirement at the same time. Anyway, most music majors (and, to a lesser but still substantial extent, journalism majors) don't know how good they have it.

I don't know if I agree with your statement regarding building a class schedule, though. You're right in saying that a a 4-year plan is laid out by the school, but I can't find a way to follow it without reaching some undesirable compromises. For example, I had to choose between Music Theory III, Television News Production, and Principles of Chemistry I, all of which met at 9:30 on Monday. These conflicts then get compounded over several semesters. I'm "on track," just behind as a result of having "on track" requirements that are mutually exclusive.
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Re: Tuba Jobs

Post by BVD Press »

Rick Denney wrote: For example, do you know any professional historians? I don't, though I do know several people with history degrees.
I know a few music historians, but they have engineering degrees. As far as I know, they put their engineering degrees to good use and then went on to history in retirement.
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Post by BVD Press »

the elephant wrote:Yeah, I was just killing time in college, you know, spinning my wheels. That is why I put in all that work on a music degree while what I really wanted out of life was to wait tables!
And I did the opposite and waited tables all through grad school so I could do music. javascript:emoticon(':D')
Last edited by BVD Press on Wed Mar 19, 2008 7:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by tuba_hacker »

WARNING: This post adds nothing relevant to the thread, but I couldn't help myself.
how could you operate a squadron of nothing but officers
How indeed? I'm sure many here have heard the adage, barked out by a drill instructor at a new recruit that will salute anything...

"Don't salute me soldier...I WORK for a living!"

When I was an airman, I only had to salute officers, but when I became an officer, I had to salute everybody.

OK, back to the regularly scheduled topic.
George

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Post by Rick Denney »

the elephant wrote:Yeah, I was just killing time in college, you know, spinning my wheels. That is why I put in all that work on a music degree while what I really wanted out of life was to wait tables!
No, you were behind a music stand, practicing, or behind a music stand, rehearsing with an ensemble, or behind a music stand, taking a lesson with your teacher. Or, you were performing. That is what makes a music program hard. It's not the academic rigor, it's the musical rigor.

You either got good, or you didn't, or you got to where you couldn't stand the practice, at which time you would have gone in a different direction.

In architecture school, there was also very little academic rigor. I spent all my time in the lab building models and creating renderings. I didn't find it difficult, and the time requirements were predictable and flexible. It was like practicing music. But I didn't get good at it (despite making good grades), and that's why I went a different direction.

Music school is not hard by itself. But if you want to get good, you have to make it hard by piling on face time with the instrument. Engineering school is hard all by itself, but does not require you to practice for unending hours to get good at it. Credit hours and what constitutes a full semester mean different things in those two regimes, and that was my (now lost) point in bringing it up.

Rick "who'd much rather be behind the music stand just at this moment" Denney
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Re: Tuba Jobs

Post by eupher61 »

MartyNeilan wrote: That's insane. I think I had about 166 credits on my undergrad transcript whrn I graduated. (Not to mention a dozen audits.)
And, I did all but 32 of them in 3.5 years. :shock:
120 is just pathetic, must be an offshoot of some kind of lottery / scholarship thing.
188 here. More since I took additional undergrad courses in more recent times--maybe 198 now?? And, 44 grad.

Get to work!
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Post by Rick Denney »

tubashaman wrote:Wait wait wait. Ensembles are not like labs. The directors here acutally expect that you practice and prepare the music for the next time :)
Look, the more you try to persuade yourself that you have it harder than anyone else, the more it will be true. But you are only adding that burden yourself. Don't worry about what others have. You can never really know what challenges they are or are not facing, and someone always has it harder. Just put one foot in front of the other and repeat.

When I would return the dorm complaining about how hard I had it, the older students in the dorm would laugh and say, "welcome to college." That was over 30 years ago and I still remember that lesson.

It's not supposed to be easy. But at least the path before you is clear. Just do it.

Rick "who didn't always enjoy college but who appreciates in hindsight its simplicity" Denney
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Post by Biggs »

tubashaman wrote:Wait wait wait. Ensembles are not like labs. The directors here acutally expect that you practice and prepare the music for the next time :)
Being a music major is easy.

Being a successful professional musician is not.

The two are not the same.
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Post by sloan »

the elephant wrote: I got about $25 per hour and got it in cash money, if you appreciate the implications of that phrase.
Yeah - it means you're a tax cheat.
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Post by windshieldbug »

the elephant wrote:I put in all that work on a music degree while what I really wanted out of life was to wait tables!
... and what's the easiest way to find an actor in L.A.?

"Waiter!"
Instead of talking to your plants, if you yelled at them would they still grow, but only to be troubled and insecure?
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Post by The Big Ben »

windshieldbug wrote:
the elephant wrote:I put in all that work on a music degree while what I really wanted out of life was to wait tables!
... and what's the easiest way to find an actor in L.A.?

"Waiter!"
True, true.....

Jobs like being a waiter can be pretty flexible and someone who actually wants to be an actor appreciates the fact that they can go off for some bit part while still being able to make some sort of living. Or just being able to eat the one meal restaurant owners allow waiters to eat.

I have a former student who majored in theater. She has worked extensively as an actress (small stage, commercials, etc.) and intends to continue acting but took a job as a flight attendant for much the same reason: good money, easy ability to take time off, free flights to tryouts. She 'defines' herself as an actress but has the practicality to do what is necessary to feed herself and make things 'work' for herself.

To be a tuba player, one must only play the tuba. The where, when, why and how are up to you.
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Post by windshieldbug »

the elephant wrote:
sloan wrote:
the elephant wrote: I got about $25 per hour and got it in cash money, if you appreciate the implications of that phrase.
Yeah - it means you're a tax cheat.
Just making certain that this does not disappear.
(unlike those tax contributions... ) 8)
Instead of talking to your plants, if you yelled at them would they still grow, but only to be troubled and insecure?
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Post by MartyNeilan »

windshieldbug wrote: (unlike those tax contributions... ) 8)
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The Future of Classical Music

Post by Michael Roest »

Look into Greg Sandow's blog about the future of Classical music.
He is a music critic for the Wall Street Journal (pop and classical), a composer, teacher, etc. He is always working with top orchestras on topics such as the future of music. I noticed that this thread leaned toward this topic and thought you might be interested in some of his experiences. He is a great person talk to about this and loves to get input. I wouldn't hesitate to share your ideas with him.

http://www.artsjournal.com/sandow/
http://www.gregsandow.com/

-Mike
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Re: Tuba Jobs

Post by tokuno »

Rick Denney wrote:
For example, do you know any professional historians? I don't, though I do know several people with history degrees. Do you know any professional astronomers? Neither do I, but I know a couple of people with astronomy degrees, one of whom has a doctorate. Do you know any professional interpreters? Nor me.
Well, my wife sure seems like a professional astronomer / historian / interpreter.
Once a month, when her stars (mis)align, I get a historical rehash of every dumb thing I've said with a heavy dose of situational interpretation :D

Seriously, on the topic of credit ceilings, when I was at Cal (aka UC Berkeley) in the 80s, I switched majors (from engineering to architecture) after 3 years and had to really massage my schedule to earn my degree before I ran out of credits. I was told that this was the vestige of a Vietnam-era policy to thwart students ducking the draft via perpetual enrollment.

For what it's worth, I took credits in engineering, music, and architecture (among others, of course) and I concur with Rick's stance on credits equal-not credits. At least not for me at Cal, they didn't.
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