Petrouchka (1947 version)

Richard Armandi · Post by **Richard Armandi** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 1:45 pm

Over the many years I attended the CSO while our beloved Mr. Jacobs was performing, I'm sure I heard him play the 'Bear' solo on at least 3-5 different occasions and he always played it (beautifully, of course) on the York tuba.... at least that's what I recall....

Posaune2 · Post by **Posaune2** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 1:59 pm

When Arnold Jacobs played it on his big York for Stravinsky, Stravinsky reportedly said to him "Now THAT'S a bear!"

Just because small horns were being played in France when the piece premiered doesn't prove that the small french tuba was the sound Stravinsky (who was Russian, in case anybody has forgotten) had in his head when he wrote the piece, IMO. Composers may be forced to work around the limitations of whatever group they are writing for, but that doesn't mean they necessarily like it.

Eric Carlson

J.c. Sherman · Post by **J.c. Sherman** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 2:11 pm

Very interesting - certainly some very important information. Can't go wrong with more information!

J.c.

J.c. Sherman · Post by **J.c. Sherman** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 3:42 pm

I'm with you - the musician makes much greater a difference than their instrument. But Jake might've sounded weird on a triple horn

God knows, the statement I've seen about pulling for tone, not pitch, is very important to an Alexander player; trust me!

J.c.

Slamson · Post by **Slamson** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 9:33 pm

I've played the Bear with three different orchestras- the first time with my 186 CC. Then I decided I needed my first F tuba, which I have fondly named "Pixie". It's an old Mahillion that I bought from Vince Simonetti about 12 years ago. When I showed it to Ed Livingston, he was convinced that it was the same Mahillion that "Mr. Bell" had played for awhile - I was impressed, but couldn't get the $@&&#$ thing to play in tune below B-flat in the staff! When I used it for the Bear, though, (playing the rest on CC, of course), it was awesome! I could play out as full and get as nasty as I wanted! I nailed both concerts and never worried about chipping a note because it locked in so well.
After awhile I broke down and got a Perantucci F, so "Pixie" got put in storage (I can't bear to sell any of my horns, including the 2 E-flats), and sat there until about 2 years ago, when the orchestra I'm in now decided to play it. I started using the Perantucci at the first rehearsal, and the conductor thought it wasn't "harsh" enough, and then I remembered my little friend. Out came "Pixie", the conductor was pasted up against the back wall of the concert hall, and was very pleased.
The moral of the story, I guess is that size doesn't necessarily dictate sound in all cases.

terry solomonson

Mojo workin' · Post by **Mojo workin'** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 11:59 pm

I started using the Perantucci at the first rehearsal, and the conductor thought it wasn't "harsh" enough, and then I remembered my little friend. Out came "Pixie", the conductor was pasted up against the back wall of the concert hall, and was very pleased.

Say hello to my little friend!

Getzeng50s · Post by **Getzeng50s** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 12:51 am

I play it on my F. and like it a lot on my F.

Wyvern · Post by **Wyvern** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 5:14 am

Bob1062 wrote:
Neptune wrote:
Bob1062 wrote:Do you think his MW Eb might work (surely modern trombones and all that)?
That is third option! However, there is a lot of low heavy stuff elsewhere where I think I would miss not using the BAT
How low does it go?

As low as I want to go! My MW Eb has an excellent low register - it is a great little tuba! But I feel its forte is singing in the middle and upper register, rather than trying to support an orchestra down below.

What you probably do not appreciate, is that no smaller tuba below the staff can provide the rich harmonic profile of a BAT. So that enveloping tone is the reason for wanting to use my Neptune - not volume which I can certainly crank out on the Eb.

Todd S. Malicoate · Post by **Todd S. Malicoate** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 9:30 am

Pssst...Neptune...I think Bob meant "how low does Petroushka go?"

ZNC Dandy · Post by **ZNC Dandy** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 1:01 pm

Neptune wrote:
Bob1062 wrote:
Neptune wrote: That is third option! However, there is a lot of low heavy stuff elsewhere where I think I would miss not using the BAT
How low does it go?
As low as I want to go! My MW Eb has an excellent low register - it is a great little tuba! But I feel its forte is singing in the middle and upper register, rather than trying to support an orchestra down below.

What you probably do not appreciate, is that no smaller tuba below the staff can provide the rich harmonic profile of a BAT. So that enveloping tone is the reason for wanting to use my Neptune - not volume which I can certainly crank out on the Eb.

You're going to want the BAT for that lick in the Masque section too where the bones and tuba go apes@*t.

J.c. Sherman · Post by **J.c. Sherman** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 2:29 pm

That's a pretty easy lick on Eb 4-v comp

J.c. (Bass Tubas RULE!)

ZNC Dandy · Post by **ZNC Dandy** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 4:16 pm

the elephant wrote:I cannot remember which version we just played. It was a rental and the very fast 5/8 lick was in the lower octave. It is the slightly more difficult version for tuba that is not in the Torchinsky book.

The Torchinsky book has the 1911 version. The 1947 version is the one that is an octave lower. It also has a concert performance ending of 9 bars on a low F#. The 1911 version is tacet throughout the last movement. The 1947 seems much more fun. The BBC Scottish Symphony performed it at the Proms last year. Chris McShane sounded ENORMOUS.

Here ia a YouTube clip starting with the Bear...literally.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=WXOGjn27MD4