Bach cello suites, for tuba

kathott · Post by **kathott** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 2:24 am

Is there an authoratative edition of the compleat Bach cello suites for tuba available? (not the "Dance Movements" book, the Bixby/Bobo book, the Robert King book, the Sterling version for double bass or the Shawnee horn book) The compleat suites pure and simple - transcribed to a suitable key, per suite, for tuba. The cello editions are not suitable in either octave. Thanks!

Dylan King · Post by **Dylan King** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 4:29 am

Bach for the Tuba volumes 1 and 2 arranged by Dougles Bixby and edited by Roger Bobo. Not the Cello Suites but very nice, in a similar melodic style. They can be played on any tuba, but i like the CC on these.

Robert King also publishes J.S. Bach Six Short Solo Suites for Bass Tuba. They are arrangements of the cello suites. I find them quite nice, and you can vary between a 3 and 6 minute performing zone depending on the repeats. They also would play well on any tuba, but I play them on CC.

Roger Lewis · Post by **Roger Lewis** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 8:35 am

Please define a "suitable key" for me. I was under the impression that the tuba could play in all keys and was told by many of my teachers that it was good to be able to play soloistically in all of them. Get the Edition Peters volume of the cello suites - for cello - and just dig in and learn them. You will be a better player for the effort. You never improve as a player if you bring the music to your skill set. You improve by challenging yourself in new areas.

That would be my recommendation.

clarke · Post by **clarke** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 8:58 am

i agree...just take the cello suites and learn them, practice them down an octave...

brianf · Post by **brianf** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 9:04 am

OK, I'm getting commercial here but this is a new release.

I have been in contact with Gordon Cherry (he is the one who puts out the orchstra excerpt CD ROM). His next release on CD ROM is the 6 Bach Unaccompanied Suites originally for cello transcribed for tuba by LA Philharmonic Principal Trombonist, Ralph Sauer. The cost of this will be $19.95. They are on the way to me, I'll have a sample up on my webpage as soon as they arrive.

Mudman · Post by **Mudman** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 2:10 pm

brianf wrote: His next release on CD ROM is the 6 Bach Unaccompanied Suites originally for cello transcribed for tuba by LA Philharmonic Principal Trombonist, Ralph Sauer.

Are these in the original keys, or transposed?

An original edition for cello is usually the best source for brass players, as it lets us decide how to deal with the double and triple stops. Most transcriptions for trombone eliminate the double stops by substituting arpeggios. What if you want to do it differently than the person who created the transcription?

Cello editions also include bowings. This can give a brass player some insight on how to phrase, and which notes to accent.

My favorite edition is the Pierre Fournier "Six Suites for Cello Solo" published by International Music Company.

Doug Yeo has several of the suites available for free on his website. www.yeodoug.com

Mark Lusk has some "clean copies" in his book/CD of the suites. These are unedited and allow the performer the freedom to mark in phrasings and dynamics. (I still prefer the Fournier edition for cello.)

Z-Tuba Dude · Post by **Z-Tuba Dude** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 2:30 pm

Mudman wrote:Cello editions also include bowings. This can give a brass player some insight on how to phrase, and which notes to accent.

I believe that Bach did not include bowings, so they too represent editorial judgement (not that it is necessarily a bad thing!)

Chuck(G) · Post by **Chuck(G)** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 3:20 pm

A very well-researched online edition of these can be had for the download at:

http://icking-music-archive.org/ByCompo ... .Bach.html

Mudman · Post by **Mudman** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 3:47 pm

Z-Tuba Dude wrote:
Mudman wrote:Cello editions also include bowings. This can give a brass player some insight on how to phrase, and which notes to accent.
I believe that Bach did not include bowings, so they too represent editorial judgement (not that it is necessarily a bad thing!)

Right you are--the only existing manuscripts come from second-hand sources. Anna Magdelena Bach was one source. There are a few articulations included in her hand. Bowings are a modern addition to the suites.

Left totally unmarked, these suites become even more difficult for the novice musician. Too much freedom is a dangerous thing! Where to begin? Where does the phrase end?!

vmi5198 · Post by **vmi5198** » Wed Sep 22, 2004 12:46 am

kathott wrote:Is there an authoratative edition of the compleat Bach cello suites for tuba available? The compleat suites pure and simple - transcribed to a suitable key, per suite, for tuba. The cello editions are not suitable in either octave. Thanks!

Hi there, Kathott! I have the Schirmer edition of the Cello Suites. They are really tough! I am working on suite IV in Eb, which is a perfect key for my new BE 983!!!! I love it! I am really glad I brought my cello suites to Japan with me!

Nice to see you on here, and I hope to see you again soon!
P.S. How is Mill Creek doing these days?

MartyNeilan · Post by **MartyNeilan** » Wed Sep 22, 2004 2:40 am

I am currently working on a few myself, particularly the Minuets from Suite 1 and the infamous Sarabande from Suite 5. For me they seem to lay best on F tuba and bass trombone (I am playing them on both and have to decide which to pick for my recital). The tessitura seems a little high for contrabass tuba, to get the kind of delicateness and finesse they deserve and not just to muscle through them. (think Mahler 1 solo - usually on F tuba even though not super high). Then again, I am sure there are a few players out there who could make a 6/4 CC far more musical on the suites than I ever could on an F. I have found Doug Yeo's arrangements to be very helpful for a starting off point, free downloads from his website.

David · Post by **David** » Wed Sep 22, 2004 2:22 pm

The suites are all I play. I play then down the octave, so some of the sweet harmonics don't come out as bright and clearly, but it's very nice. I'm working on Suite III and II for my audition.
I love them all though!

DonnieMac · Post by **DonnieMac** » Thu Sep 23, 2004 3:40 pm

The cello icon, Pablo Casals, played these for about 50 years and recorded them too. See: http://www.berkshirerecordoutlet.com/cg ... ome&RPP=25
So for $5 you can get the 2 CD set and listen to about how these should be played. In this set Casals plays "Come Sweet Death" to which I say, WOW, is that what it should sound like!
Check it out.
Donnie Mac

David · Post by **David** » Thu Sep 23, 2004 8:47 pm

I hope no one takes that seriously- that there is any single way "these [suites] should be played." Though some have doubts about his technique and style of interpretation as he got older, Pablo was a master celliest in his own right. That goes without saying. He was the "pioneer" of this work.

Few people knew about "The Six suites" before Pablo.
He was the first to champion them. Bringing this music back to life for the whole world with his lush and vivid view of them. They are the staple by which all cellists are measured.

Adhearing to one method of performance for this music is an insult both to Bach who wrote them, and you who perform them. Bach's music was never meant to be performed "one way." So many different interpretations are valid- the joy of Bach is finding your own. Pablo breathed life into them by playing them in a new way. Don't kill them by simple musical regurgitation.

JB · Post by JB » Fri Sep 24, 2004 3:13 pm

JCRaymo wrote:
kathott wrote:Is there an authoratative edition of the compleat Bach cello suites for tuba available? (not the "Dance Movements" book, the Bixby/Bobo book, the Robert King book, the Sterling version for double bass or the Shawnee horn book) The compleat suites pure and simple - transcribed to a suitable key, per suite, for tuba. The cello editions are not suitable in either octave. Thanks!
I have the Bach Suite no 1 arranged for tuba by Alain Cazes. I did not see this version mentioned earlier in the post. I like it and it is in a playable octave. The key on all of the movements is Gb except the Minuet II which is in E. My teacher really liked this arrangement and he said he tried to buy it but it is out of print. I can't remember where I bought it but there is a label Cazes Cuivres Montreal QUE.

You might want to try contacting Prof. Alain Cazes via the McGill Univsersity e-mail address for him: alain.cazes@staff.mcgill.ca. While some sources may list this as out of print, there is probably a very good chance that he could provide a copy.

Hope this helps.

His setting is very, very fine, and sits very well for performance on Eb tuba as well.

DonnieMac · Post by **DonnieMac** » Fri Sep 24, 2004 6:05 pm

So beyond P. Calals' recordings Edgar Meyer recorded the suites on double bass, almost within the tuba compass. Yo-Yo Maw did a hot recording as did P. Fournier. One recording of the suites that will scare you is M.Rostropovich's. Don't listen to that one or you will be forever humbled over the cello suites.

David · Post by **David** » Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:40 pm

I used to be totally in love with Yo-yo recording of the suites, but I stumbled upon Rostropovich's, I totally agree with you. The preludium of suite V in C minor, is pretty masterful. Definately worth a listen!

Never heard Edgar Meyer's double bass rendition of the suites. Will definately have to pick that up

Sam Gnagey · Post by **Sam Gnagey** » Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:54 pm

My teacher, Bill Bell, had us do the cello suites on CC tuba but read them as if we were playing them on F. The written F in the staff sounded as the second space C. That broght them down into a more playable range and also gave us a lot of experience learing F fingerings. Give it a try. Tell us what you think. Of course we used the original cello versions for this.
Now I like to play them in the written octave but on the appropriate key for the key of the suite (ie. d minor suite on F tuba, Eb suite on Eb tuba, C suite on CC tuba, G suite seems best on F).

Art Hovey · Post by **Art Hovey** » Fri Sep 24, 2004 11:27 pm

I like David Cooper's trumpet book of the cello suites, published by Charles Colin. I practice them each in two keys; in treble clef as written (but down a couple of octaves) and also in psuedo-bass clef (adding three flats and pretending it's in bass clef) Both ways work well for tuba. The charts are clearly printed and easy to read, and Cooper has put a lot of thought into them.

Tubadork · Post by **Tubadork** » Sat Sep 25, 2004 8:00 pm

Hi,
Mark Lusk (bass trombonist teacher at Penn State) wrote a great book it's called the trombonists guide to the Bach cello suites (or something like that I don't have it in front of me) He outlines a way to play them, how to make your own editions and an example of one that he did (2nd). There is also a cd where he plays some of the examples and he also plays the 2nd suite. Then all of the suites are listed with no articulations (trying to be the Urtext version) however I think there are some wrong notes in Marks book, so I would buy a cello version (Urtext) and check it from there.
There are also some people out there now who are playing them (pro's) and you might want to just check in with them and see what their opinions are.
Hope that helps,
Bill Pritchard

TubeNet

Bach cello suites, for tuba

Bach cello suites, for tuba

Suitable key?

Re: Bach cello suites, for tuba

Ah

Bach Cello Suites

Hmm

Re: Bach cello suites, for tuba

Double Bass Cello Suites

Oh yeah