I need a horn that will do it all.......

[gjones7777]

I've been out of playing for a long time (20 years) and I need a horn.

I want a BBb or CC. I want a horn that PLAYS! Meaning, I'm not looking to fart around in a polka or dixieland band. I want a horn that has intonation and SPEED. I have a horn now that I just got and it's basically a "student model". I need a horn that will easily and CLEANLY play anything I throw at it. I would like your opinions as I am not able to just "shop around" as there are no large dealers in my area. I don't have unlimited funds however I'd rather pay more to get what I want as to pay less and get another "ok" horn.
I greatly appreciate and respect your opinions. What's the BEST all around horn out there?

Thanks !

[jon112780]

In my opinion, the the most 'user friendly' CC out there is the Getzen (G-50/C-50). It is very easy to play, is a smaller (yet still) 4/4 CC, that has a great sound and has a 5th valve. This horn also allows you (I mean a compenent repair man) turn the 5th valve 90 degrees (and pull some slides), and it becomes, in essence, a 4 valve BBb. You'll have to buy this one used, as they are no longer in produstion .

That's a great CC with a decidely 'American' sound.

If you like rotors, and a 'German' sound, you can't go wrong with a 5 valve 186 (CC or BBb). These horns are pretty consistant, and there's lots of them out there.

I might also mention some Eb's (Besson 983, Wilson 3400, MW 2141), but you mentioned you were looking for a CC or BBb...

[PWtuba]

If you like rotors, and a 'German' sound, you can't go wrong with a 5 valve 186 (CC or BBb). These horns are pretty consistant, and there's lots of them out there.

I agree. I have a 188, which is practically the same thing... I can't even tell the difference. Does anybody know what?

[TubaRay]

If you like rotors, and a 'German' sound, you can't go wrong with a 5 valve 186 (CC or BBb). These horns are pretty consistant, and there's lots of them out there.

Gotta agree with this suggestion.

[pwhitaker]

... I'm not looking to fart around in a polka or dixieland band....

If you do either of these correctly it shouldn't be "farting around".

[Eric B]

I must say that the Miraphone 186 BBb or CC is what first entered my mind. In my opinion, it is the way to go if you can only have one horn. I've used mine for tuba 4tet, brass quintet, brass choir, community band, and symphony. It is great for all. I will probably upsize to a Meinl-Weston Thor, Rudy Meinl 5/4 or Miraphone 1292 because I desire a little more presence for the orchestra. Another criterion for selecting the 186 is that you don't have the luxery of shopping around. You will find inconsistancies between any 2 instruments of the same model. Miraphone 186's are one of the most consistant horns made. I purchased mine sight unseen from Brasswind. I love playing it and I'll likely regret selling later on.

[The Big Ben]

I I purchased mine sight unseen from Brasswind. I love playing it and I'll likely regret selling later on.

Brasswind has a Tuba Man (Roger Lewis) at the helm again and can direct you towards a good horn of any type and style.

[Rick Denney]

I've been out of playing for a long time (20 years) and I need a horn.

I want a BBb or CC. I want a horn that PLAYS! Meaning, I'm not looking to fart around in a polka or dixieland band. I want a horn that has intonation and SPEED. I have a horn now that I just got and it's basically a "student model". I need a horn that will easily and CLEANLY play anything I throw at it. I would like your opinions as I am not able to just "shop around" as there are no large dealers in my area. I don't have unlimited funds however I'd rather pay more to get what I want as to pay less and get another "ok" horn.
I greatly appreciate and respect your opinions. What's the BEST all around horn out there?

Thanks !

I've recently heard recommendations for both a Yamaha YBB-621 and a Miraphone 190.

"R"

[iiipopes]

186

Newer models with the 17 3/4 inch bell and modern linkage will give you a different tone than the older 16 1/2 inch bells, with the larger bell speaking with a little more "American" accent, if there is such a thing.

[gjones7777]

I appreciate the info.

And I hate to say it but the last time I played 186s was over 20 years ago and other than the finish, there wasn't much I liked about them. Their sound is too bright for me, a little stuffy on the bottom and the action was way too slow.

From what I've read so far the new models must be a huge improvement over the old ones.

I guess what I'm looking for is tuba "french horn" sound with the valve action of a trumpet.

[brianggilbert]

I appreciate the info.

And I hate to say it but the last time I played 186s was over 20 years ago and other than the finish, there wasn't much I liked about them. Their sound is too bright for me, a little stuffy on the bottom and the action was way too slow.

From what I've read so far the new models must be a huge improvement over the old ones.

I guess what I'm looking for is tuba "french horn" sound with the valve action of a trumpet.

You may have been playing a poor example of this model, as this horn is a quality instrument through and through. There are many fine examples of 186's out there in both BBb and CC that would certainly suit your purposes. Also they are plentiful so the economics of "supply and demand" would be a bit in your favor.

Welcome back to the club!

[Rick Denney]

I appreciate the info.

And I hate to say it but the last time I played 186s was over 20 years ago and other than the finish, there wasn't much I liked about them. Their sound is too bright for me, a little stuffy on the bottom and the action was way too slow.

From what I've read so far the new models must be a huge improvement over the old ones.

I guess what I'm looking for is tuba "french horn" sound with the valve action of a trumpet.

I can't think of any bit of technical brilliance in the repertoire that has not been successfully performed even on an old Miraphone 186, or any one of several similar instruments. Nor do I think the rotaries are necessarily slow. Oystein Baadsvik plays one of the Vivaldi Four Seasons on a rotary Miraphone (not a 186, but probably with similar valves), and Pat Sheridan plays just about anything that can be notated on a piston Besson.

The Miraphone you played before might have been worn or out of adjustment. Or, maybe you needed a different concept to explore its potential.

That said, I do prefer piston valves for that sort of thing. You might look into a new King 2341. It has a vintage American round tone and pistons that should be as fast as you (think you) are. It's smaller than a 186, but I don't think you'll find it particularly stuffy in the low register or bright sounding. Don't buy one without the opportunity for a trial--they do vary. If you do find it stuffy or slow, then I submit that you should attend a conference or travel to a tuba store and explore things on your own, because advice from us isn't going to be helpful to you.

There is no such thing as one tuba that does everything. There are players who can seemingly do anything on one instrument, but the instruments they use seem sufficiently varied to 1.) prevent a recommendation, and 2.) suggest that it's the player not the instrument demonstrating the versatility.

Rick "not good enough for a 186" Denney

[gjones7777]

I'm sorry if I insulted any 186 owners. Apparently ALL of the 186s I played were "worn out" (I played at least 6 different horns in the US and Germany) so I will give the 186 another look.

Call me crazy but I don't like Oystein Baadsvik's sound that much. I think he's a bit on the blarey side. And that's the sound most European horns seem to have. Dark and rich is what I'm looking for but it has to be able to zip too.

One would think with all the new models available there would be plenty of models like that?

What I'm seeing on the Net so far is dozens of copies of a few different configurations, and most of them are the same thing I saw 20 years ago.

Well, just the same, thanks for the input.

And sorry for stepping on any egos ........ (some things never change LMAO)

[kingrob76]

I've played some older 186's (of the CC variety) that were really good horns. I've also played some older 186's that would be best served by being left in the middle of a road to help prevent squirrels from being run over.

I recently tried a brand new one and thought they were decent. Not for me, but good horns.

As for a do-it-all, a couple really good do-most-of-it horns are the Getzen CB-50 and the Mirafone 188, and maybe a really good MW2145. The stuff Sam Gnagey makes is supposed to be very good. The Conn 52J / 54J / 56J series appeals to a lot of people as well, just didn't work for me.

[kctubadude]

Dark and rich is what I'm looking for but it has to be able to zip too.

One would think with all the new models available there would be plenty of models like that?

What I'm seeing on the Net so far is dozens of copies of a few different configurations, and most of them are the same thing I saw 20 years ago.

I'm kind of in the same boat, I want a rich, warm, fat sound in a 4/4 package that can do anything. Unfortunately, I kinda like the Thor, which is WAAY more tuba than I really need.

Anyway, I played the 188 vs. the 186, and although it is more money, it is a pretty sweet horn. I've never been a huge fan of the 186 (egads, did I just say that) but I Really Liked the 188, it is a darker instrument. I had some problems being speedy on the rotary valves, but I don't think that was the instrument's fault.

I think you'll find the newer horns (especially the last 5 years or so) are better in terms of intonation and response, even though the overall design hasn't changed much in the last 20 years.

[kctubadude]

Speaking of darker sounding 4/4 horns, what are the opinions of the PT-606, or the 4/4 Nirschl?

-jjw

[Rick Denney]

And sorry for stepping on any egos ........ (some things never change LMAO)

[Thinking better of my first response...]

My point in bringing up Baadsvik was not to demonstrate the tonal wonder of his Miraphone, though his sound has certainly received praise from those in a position to bestow it. My point was that he didn't have any trouble going fast with Miraphone rotary valves. And he certainly wasn't farting around.

I suggest that if you think his sound blarey, you will find any advice you receive from us inadequate to your needs.

Assuming that you are a gifted musician (and I have reason to believe that you are), I would suggest that you start by identifying the instrument you currently have, and what you think is wrong with it. What kind of music do you intend to play? (Telling us what you don't intend to play isn't helpful.) What instruments have you tried (other than one--no--six Miraphone 186's that you didn't like) and what didn't you like about them?

After doing that, then you'll hear from a people who desire to defend their own purchases by recommending the tuba they bought.

Rick "who would not have thought your current instrument a student model" Denney

[J.c. Sherman]

On my little soap-box again...

If you're hoping to do everything on one horn, and the 186 Mirphone isn't your cup of tea, I would seriously consider a good big Eb. You will ultimately have the greatest flexibility and variety of functionality from this type of instrument. Otherwise, you've gotten good suggestions... just remember, you'll sound like you no matter what you play.

J.c.S.

[Roger Lewis]

Miraphone 188 - great horn, tuning and response and the best feeling rotary valves in the business for my taste (my B&S F is pretty darn good as well).

1291/2 if a piston horn is needed, but I would probably still recommend the 188 as your 1st choice. If the horn is set up properly the valves will be plenty fast.

Just my $0.02.

Peace
Roger

[tubatom91]

I have to agree with Roger. I just bought a 188 from Brasswind and picked up from the freight depot today. Thanks again Roger the horn is at home safe & sound.