Bydlo in auditions

rascaljim · Post by **rascaljim** » Sun Sep 26, 2004 12:41 pm

So I've been seeing more auditions asking for Bydlo from Pictures at an Exhibition as an excerpt. Do any of you take a different instrument besides F tuba to play it? I can pull it off... but as many of you can imagine it doens't work 100% of the time.

Thanks
Jim

rascaljim · Post by **rascaljim** » Sun Sep 26, 2004 6:17 pm

let me clarify, many of the auditions are regional auditions, not necessairly the big stuff that gets posted here. Also I am wondering if anyone uses a euphonium for bydlo in an audition.

Thanks
Jim

Dylan King · Post by **Dylan King** » Sun Sep 26, 2004 6:32 pm

I agree with Gene. A rotary valve Euphonium is the best choice. Even better when it's being played by a trombone or euphonium player.

elimia · Post by **elimia** » Mon Sep 27, 2004 9:27 pm

It is a straightforward play on the euphonium. I dinked around with it some in high school on the euph and did ok.

BTW, Pittsburgh Symphony is playing 'Pictures' this season. For anyone within striking distance of the 'burgh, it will be worth the drive. Pittsburgh Symphony is something else, with an incredible low brass section. I only wonder if Sumner Erickson will be playing the solo (he has been on leave). Anyone know the answer to that?

Dean · Post by **Dean** » Mon Sep 27, 2004 11:57 pm

No word on this upcoming performance, but...

I heard him play it a few years back--probably around 98 or so.

Two nights in a row he cracked that G# several times during the movement. (heard it once live, then the other night on radio)

I'm not saying he is a bad player, not at all. Just goes to show you it wasnt meant to be played on tuba.

Hmm, and whatya know--BRIAN BOWMAN was around at the time--teaching at Duquesne University. Missed opportunity? I think so!

Lew · Post by **Lew** » Tue Sep 28, 2004 11:28 am

How different is the Alex 151 in playing characteristics from this, much less expensive, Cerveny 533-4?

Dean E · Post by **Dean E** » Tue Sep 28, 2004 4:01 pm

bloke wrote:. . . . You also could consider one of those old "eBay special" peashooter Conn Eb tubas (c. .620"-.625" bore) with the shaved-down 69C4 mouthpiece (because those ancient tubas generally have the undersized receiver). Bydlo is in a fantastic key on the Eb tuba...and (if you can find one) the skinny-bore 14"-bell Conn Eb would offer much more of a "tuba" sound than any euphonium ever could.

I have one of those. It's a Conn Pan American 3/4 Eb tuba (.625 inch bore) with a small receiver and 16 inch bell. (The horn was very sharp, and I had to cut the tuning slide.) The small receiver will take a bass bone mouthpiece or a Denis Wick (DW). I use a small cup DW, like a 4 or 5, or a vintage York Eb Monster mouthpiece.

I've been working on Bydlo occasionally for about a week. The horn plays most of Bydlo nicely, but I don't have the chops for the G sharp. At this stage, I prefer the sound of fingernails on a chalkboard to my squeaks that make the dog piddle.

Chen · Post by **Chen** » Tue Sep 28, 2004 4:29 pm

I also heard Sumner Erickson/Pittsburgh Symphony play the Bydlo and Sumner played it flawlessly, probably just a bad night that night.

elimia · Post by **elimia** » Tue Sep 28, 2004 7:54 pm

I'm sure Erickson just had an off night, I always look forward to hearing him play. But you make a good point, Bowman was at Duquesne (just down Forbes Ave) at that time. Or, at the minimum, why didn't Erickson just play it on the euphonium?

This begs the question - when the heck are we ever going to see euphonium players (esp. someone of Bowman's caliber) get the repect they deserve as a part of classical ensembles? Is it going to happen in say, the next 20-30 years, or even the next 100 years? I just play recreationally and don't have to worry about the employment thing on the horn, but I really feel for the quality euphonium players that come out and are basically faced with having to do the military band thing as one of their only performance options. Let me put that another way - I have absolutely nothing against the military bands, but euphoniums deserve a seat in orchestras. Military euphers, please don't flame!

Sorry to change the thread, I just feel pretty strongly about this. All this makes me have the utmost repect for the great euphonium players. I understand the literature wasn't written for the instrument, but I would applaud a forward thinking orchestra who would include the instrument by making a part for it. Goodness forbid we try to do something different in classical music and put some new zip into it!

Dreaming of the day Mead is principal euphonium for the London Symphony, etc, etc.

Ryan

Mudman · Post by **Mudman** » Tue Sep 28, 2004 9:24 pm

bloke wrote:One reason that I have trouble sitting through band concerts (even All State with my own kids playing, and yep, even when one of my kids plays with a famous grown-up one in the Lone Star State) is that there is no "shimmer" (except during loud trumpet playing and cymbal crashes) and there is far too much "mezzo" (a huge gob of horns, euphoniums, saxophones, harmony clarinets, etc...along with near-mezzo voiced instruments - upper trombones, lower trumpets, bassoons, etc. - playing constantly rather than occasionally and dulling the sensory experience.)

Transparency: orchestras can create a transparent texture that bands are not able to match.

Band music is all too often a pale imitation of orchestral literature. Even so, I do like bands, and think that the best bands are thrilling to listen to. (I get goose bumps hearing a Holst piece played by a great band. H.Owen Reed's 'La Fiesta Mexicana' does it for me too.) It is just that the average band texture is fairly thick.

Dylan King · Post by **Dylan King** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 5:29 am

I borrowed Tommy Johnson's "Bydlo horn" when I played Pictures with the UCLA Symphony in the mid-nineties. I can't remember exactly but looking at the horn above, I think it was a miraphone. Tommy also let me borrow his N4 mouthpiece with the super-small shank for the solo. It worked out great. Somebody should make some tuba-sized moiuthpieces for bass trombone and euphonium.

What a concert that was. I has the "Tommy Johnson Bydlo horn", my Rudy 6V F, and the Yorkbrunner all lined up on the floor around me. I felt like I was part of a circus act. Two times when I switched around horns or spun the Yorkbrunner I could hear some retard in the audience talking about it. It was quite entertaining from both sides of the stage I figure.

MaryAnn · Post by **MaryAnn** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 10:34 am

On the rotary baritone....I have a MW rotary bariton, and while it would be spectacular on the higher parts of Bydlo, it is stuffy in the low register and the low parts would be more difficult to make speak (the same stuffy problem that F rotary tubas have.) When I did Bydlo a year ago (community orchestra) I started out trying to do it on my F tuba but the high G# just wasn't going to make it and I switched to piston euphonium, on which it worked well. I didn't own the bariton at that point or I probably would have tried to use it. I don't know if the oval rotaries have that same stuffiness thing or not.

Mary Ann

Rick Denney · Post by **Rick Denney** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 12:31 pm

MaryAnn wrote:On the rotary baritone....I have a MW rotary bariton, and while it would be spectacular on the higher parts of Bydlo, it is stuffy in the low register and the low parts would be more difficult to make speak (the same stuffy problem that F rotary tubas have.) When I did Bydlo a year ago (community orchestra) I started out trying to do it on my F tuba but the high G# just wasn't going to make it and I switched to piston euphonium, on which it worked well. I didn't own the bariton at that point or I probably would have tried to use it. I don't know if the oval rotaries have that same stuffiness thing or not.

There are rotary baritones and rotary baritones. The typical one (including those wrapped in the oval shape) are on the small side. They are not at all like the kaiser baryton that Miraphone also makes, and that the Alexander 151 exemplifies.

I wish I could tell you if they are similar on their low F to the low C of the typical small rotary F tuba, but I have only looked at them. My Besson euphonium is not tuba-like on that accompaniment part in Bydlo between the two solo sections, but it does make enough sound to work. I expect it is as tuba-like as the small French C tuba for which it was written. The kaiser barytons have a bigger and darker sound.

Rick "who would appreciate owning a 151 but who will not spend money for one" Denney

Lew · Post by **Lew** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 1:27 pm

Ok, I've seen this discussion for years, should one use a euphonium/tenor tuba (read Alex 151) or bass tuba (Eb/F) or contrabass tuba to play this? As an amateur I would never attempt to play a high G# in concert. Even playing a scale up to it on my Eb it just isn't going to sound very good. But the Eb and F below it aren't a problem for me on a bass tuba (Besson 983). I would think therefore that someone who was good should have no problem playing this on a bass tuba. Why wouldn't it be reasonable to play this on an F tuba?

MaryAnn · Post by **MaryAnn** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 1:48 pm

Rick Denney wrote:
There are rotary baritones and rotary baritones. The typical one (including those wrapped in the oval shape) are on the small side. They are not at all like the kaiser baryton that Miraphone also makes, and that the Alexander 151 exemplifies.

I wish I could tell you if they are similar on their low F to the low C of the typical small rotary F tuba, but I have only looked at them. My Besson euphonium is not tuba-like on that accompaniment part in Bydlo between the two solo sections, but it does make enough sound to work. I expect it is as tuba-like as the small French C tuba for which it was written. The kaiser barytons have a bigger and darker sound.

Rick "who would appreciate owning a 151 but who will not spend money for one" Denney

My MW bariton is way brighter than the King euph I played Bydlo on....but the King euph can blast the low notes between the solos (well, it can with a TUBA player playing it!)

I was asked to sub on euph at brass band last friday since all the euphs had gone fishing (really!) and I accepted not knowing I was going to be stuck sight reading a solo euph part for some cornet/euph solo. Sheesh. Dirty conductor tricks....but the conductor got stuck hearing it on my bariton, so there!
MA, whose avatar is as reasonable a likeness as other peoples' avatars are

Mark · Post by **Mark** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 2:45 pm

Lew wrote:Even playing a scale up to it ... I would think therefore that someone who was good should have no problem playing this on a bass tuba. Why wouldn't it be reasonable to play this on an F tuba?

It's not just that the G# is high. It's the slur up to the G# at piano, it's switching to the bass tuba from a contrabass during Pictures with no chance to warm up the bass tuba, and, it's playing that high G# as a solo knowing that some of the best tubists in the world have cracked that note.

Steve Marcus · Post by **Steve Marcus** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 4:07 pm

Mark wrote:It's not just that the G# is high. It's the slur up to the G# at piano...

...and nailing that isolated piano high G# near the end...

Mark · Post by **Mark** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 8:47 pm

enigma wrote:Could anyone who thinks they know please PM me approximate costs for the Alex 151 and/or the Miraphone Kaiser Baryton.

Tony Clements had an Alex 151 for sale a while back. I vaguely remember the price being in the $4,000 - $5,000 dollar range. I would assume that the Miraphone would be cheaper, but I don't know for sure.

Sumner · Post by **Sumner** » Thu Apr 21, 2005 6:20 am

Howdy!

I think the Bydlo should be played on a Euph. since it is written for a French tuba in C, an octave above our CC tubas (as I understand it).

I always wanted to play this solo because it is such amazing music and an amazing opportunity for a tuba player to have such a great solo. Maybe that was a bit arrogant or at least misguided on my part, but I always loved doing it. And, I did have conductors ask for me to play it and "not on the small tuba" (Mariss Jansons was one).

I feel I always had mixed "technical" success but was able to communicate the feeling that the music demanded...

Best wishes,

Sumner

Please check out my new solo CD!

windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Thu Apr 21, 2005 11:07 am

Bydlo was written for an instrument an octave above our CC, and is often played by the (hack, cough, hack-some-more) bass trombone players on euphonium, even in big orchestras. If you play it and switch horns, you've got to nail the first note, and an even "bigger" challenge coming up REAL fast in The Great Gate. I did it on my first series on F, just to prove to myself that I could do it, then let the bass bone player take it after that. With paying customers, I didn't feel it was worth ANY risk.

TubeNet

Bydlo in auditions

Bydlo in auditions

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