questions from a high school tubist

8vabasso · Post by **8vabasso** » Mon Sep 27, 2004 9:29 pm

Do you know the difference between a gymnast and a musician? A gymnast worries about landing his next routine, a musician worries about landing his next gig.
The three most important things when playing tuba are: sound, Sound, and SOUND. The next thing is no mistakes: none, nada, nyet, ziltch. Play something that will give you the best possibility to do both. Most of the people you are going to try and impress probably never heard of the concerto anyway, so it is unlikely that you will gain any style points for the attempt.

Personally, I would rather eat crushed glass than to try and land the VW on a 686. Phil H.

tubachris · Post by **tubachris** » Mon Sep 27, 2004 9:54 pm

dude,
I say go for it. I just performed this in August and it was a matter of dogged pursuit of excellence with each phrase, with each note. Can you put in 2-4 hours a day? (especially a month before you perform?)
if so great.
I find that if you're looking at the piece as a whole what is really critical is connecting your upper and lower register especially for the opening lick, but even in the second movement when it descends to the b natural, you've just come from a d above staff at the top of the phrase. hence: practice stuff which connects those registers: ie: arpeggios with different articulations etc.
i found it also quite helpful to sing passages so that i could achieve accurate pitch, you gotta know the phrases backward and forward and singing adds that extra knowledge of pitch relationships.
If you want to, email me with other questions: I'm fresh off the experience.
as for instrument etc. if you're already getting an Ab (I assume you mean above staff) and you have six months, focus on getting the best mileage out of your existing instrument. ie: the equipment you have.
cheers,

zachattck514 · Post by **zachattck514** » Mon Sep 27, 2004 10:08 pm

I also went through everything your going through. Being from New York I was subjected to NYSSMA each year and faced the reality of "making the grade" in order to make all state.
My advice for you, especially since its your last shot at all state, would be to do something that you are sure that even on your worst day will sound great. When it comes down to it 100 is 100. It is not necessarily the grade that will get you into all state but the comments. You should pick a piece not because you like it but because you sound amazing on it.
There were plenty of harder solos I could have chosen but I played Vivaldi's Sonata No. 3 in a minor and then the next year I played 3 movements from Wilder's Effie Suite. I chose these not because they were the hardest or because I had heard them and fell in love with them sight unseen but because I found that they were an even balance of technicality and difficulty versus my ability to play them well.
The bottom line is that the decisions I made as far as All-State solos paid off in the end. I made all state symphonic band and all eastern honors band as a junior and all state symphony orchestra as a senior.
The Vaughn Williams is the piece that according to the program notes from the CSO cd is the piece that every tuba playerâ€™s ability is measured against. Most brass musicians will know it especially all state judges. Choose something maybe more obscure and that you wont have to worry about the "what ifs" that may come along with a bad day scenario. If you have, any questions feel free to email me privately.

phoenix · Post by **phoenix** » Mon Sep 27, 2004 10:41 pm

I'm in the same boat dude,
Miraphone 1291 CC
Laskey 30H mouthpiece
Gotta have it ready in 4 months for an Eastman audition

I hope it goes well
Anyway I feel the same way about this piece as you and I can't wait to tackle this sucker

Good Luck Man!

Lew · Post by **Lew** » Tue Sep 28, 2004 11:05 am

I had a rose brass Cerveny 686 stencil, it was sold as a "Styriaton," but in every other way was a 686. I found it as easy a horn to play a solid, clear high range on as any other BBb I have owned or played, so the equipment shouldn't be a problem.

Rick Denney · Post by **Rick Denney** » Tue Sep 28, 2004 1:33 pm

k-towntuba wrote:hmm like 45 views and no new posts.... anybody?

You aren't getting much response because you didn't leave much room for advice.

Let me summarize what I heard you say, and you tell me if I got it right: "I'm playing the second movement of the RVW concertor for NYSSMA no matter what anybody says, even though I know they may tell me I shouldn't. Okay?"

My response would be, "Okay."

The judges, however, might embellish.

The second movement of the Vaughan Williams is not technically that demanding except that it is parked in the upper register and it stays there. It's much more technically demanding than it looks because of that range. But it is musically more demanding still. First and foremost your sense of song will have to shine through, and anything that distracts from that lyricism will get in the way. That includes fuzzy sound from playing beyond your true range using too much pressure, and it includes fracking notes or sounding like the notes are hard to reach. The sense of line has to be continuous and it has to seem effortless.

Don't use the Jacobs recording as the foremost example to work from. He used an instrument that sounds fuzzy in all registers, in my opinion. The Michael Lind recording (The Virtuoso Tuba) provides a better example of what to strive for. The Hans Nickel recording (Cantuballada) provides an alternative, but equally beautiful.

I heard a college kid play the first movement for Pat Sheridan at a master class a couple of years ago, using a contrabass tuba. He sounded fine, though he had clearly focused on getting notes instead of on breathing steadily and musically through the phases. I also heard Alex Lapins play the second movement on an F for Roger Bobo, and he DID breathe steadily and musically through the phrases. The difference was profound, but I suspect not related to the instruments. If you can make those high notes sound pure and effortless on a BBb, then the instrument shouldn't be a problem. But that's a big IF, and if you can't do it now it will not be something you can fix in a few weeks. Record yourself and be honest about where you are.

On the other hand, I once auditioned for a community orchestra playing the second movement of the Hindemith Sonata. It was beyond me, but I explained to the conductor that I wanted him to know 1.) what sort of music I liked, and 2.) what my limits were. I got the position. But I have to admit that there was no competition. The point is that sometimes you have to set an unobtainable goal just to push yourself into new territory.

Rick "a second-rate amateur who is not always timid" Denney

Rick Denney · Post by **Rick Denney** » Tue Sep 28, 2004 4:16 pm

k-towntuba wrote:(p.s. i agree about the jacobs recording, well for the 2nd movement, the sound is a bit fuzzy. i have another version of the 2nd that i got off of limewire i think, just for educational reasons tho!! and i dont know where its from but it sounds alot clearer and more connected and more well phrased thatn the jacobs 2nd (any idea what i mean, if youve heard it?) i an aiming for a sound on the 2nd (if i play it) more along the lines of like a french horn kind of sound but more open and bigger. but i do like the way jacobs plays the 1st and 3rd)

With all due respect, I think you ought to invest actual money in a library of tuba performance that you actually own, so that you'll actually know who is playing what.

If I were serious about performing the Vaughan Williams, I would want to know all of what had passed before, even if I then choose a different path. Three recordings I would find a way to own would be:

John Fletcher, with the London Symphony Orchestra, conducted by Previn, on EMI. It's usually bundled with the Vaughan Williams 5th Symphony, which is also good to own if you want to understand the composer beyond just the concerto. Most consider this the definitive recording of the Vaughan Williams.

Michael Lind, The Virtuoso Tuba, on Caprice, I think. This recording is almost too beautiful in the first and third movements, but the second is where that beauty should shine.

Hans Nickel, Cantuballada, on Valve-Hearts. I've written about this recording before. It has in my view the definitive recording of the Gregson concerto. Nickel plays the Vaughan Williams with faithful consideration of the markings in the music that is often thought to be a mistake imposed by the first performer in the published version, but Nickel makes those marking musical. It's the only recording that really captures the dry humor of the composer in the first movement, in my view.

The first two are available from Amazon, and the third from the label (www.valve-hearts.com, I think). You have time to collect these, even if you have to earn a little extra money to do so. Researching your musical statement is at least as important as mastering the necessary technique. You'll pay less for all three of these CD's than for a new mouthpiece, and listening to them will do more good.

Rick "not slowed down by occasionally pressing the shift key" Denney

TubaRay · Post by **TubaRay** » Tue Sep 28, 2004 4:35 pm

Ken, my advice to you is to not let anyone on this discussion board discourage you. Read the advice, process the information, talk to others you know and respect(i.e. your teacher), and make the best choices you can. Your willingness to "go for it" is admirable. If you can live with the possibility of failure, this could be the way to go.

I had a good friend give me advice some years ago. It pertained to band competitions, but it transfers pretty well to your situation. He said, "never enter a competition you can't afford to lose." That may sound a bit strange, but it makes sense. Losing is always a possibility. If losing is something can't live with, then don't enter. On the other hand, there is this quote: "'Tis better to have loved and lost, than not to have loved at all."

In other words, if you can live with failure, in the event things don't work out so well, you may also be able to experience success which you can savor.

Best wishes.

Art Hovey · Post by **Art Hovey** » Tue Sep 28, 2004 9:56 pm

It can be done on a BBb tuba, but it's gonna sound strained. You could experiment with a smaller mouthpiece like a Bach 32, which is fairly common and inexpensive, but that makes the instrument harder to control.
When I was in HS in NY state I worked on the VW taking the whole thing down an octave. (Not for performance, just for myself.) For the solo contest I played the Ernest Williams concerto. (Originally for cornet but in print for tuba also listed as grade 6 in the NYSSMA manual.) It lays well for BBb tuba and made me sound good. Several people saw it listed as "Williams" and made their own assumptions, which was kind of amusing.

Tom · Post by **Tom** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 1:33 pm