Euph 842S Problems

Daniel8802 · Post by **Daniel8802** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 10:49 pm

So tonight in band about halfway through, the strangest thing started to happen with my euphonium.

When I went to play, I noticed that it wasn't 'right.' When I blow it sounds like it is muffled and muted. It is also very hard to keep a steady tone flowing without cracking or making it sound like a flutter tongue. As far as I can tell everything looks fine and nothing is stuck. Does anyone have any recommendations? Thanks!

Casey Tucker · Post by **Casey Tucker** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 11:11 pm

pics?

lol
:twisted: :oops:

Rick F · Post by **Rick F** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 11:14 pm

jimlyon50022 wrote:Make sure all your valve guides are in place...

I was going to suggest the same thing. On my Yamaha-641 I had the 4th valve become separated where the top of the valve is 'pressed' into the valve body. Since the valve guide mounts to the top of the valve, the 4th valve lost its alignment. The tone was very stuffy and the pitch was off. This could happen with any of the valves.

Another possibility could be someone put something down your bell.

Good luck. Let us know what you find.

Naptown Tuba · Post by **Naptown Tuba** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 12:19 am

Spit valve slightly off and not seating properly? Just a guess.

Roger Lewis · Post by **Roger Lewis** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 8:16 am

for a cracked or missing spit valve cork. Next on the list would be the valve guides.

Peace.
Roger

Daniel8802 · Post by **Daniel8802** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 9:54 am

tubashaman wrote:Idiot about to speak:

Did this occur immediately or has it gradually began to feel like it currently does.

If its an immediate feeling, then check to see if someone put something in your bell, if your in a university/hs setting, it might be a prank. But if it has been gradually occuring, clean out your leadpipe with a good snake brush (i did my 1291 recently and it was gross) and had my teacher trim my valve guides to get the burriness off and it works just as new

It was during concert band at university, but that is why I make sure it is my case when I'm not playing but who says someone couldn't have opened my case, right?

As for the one comment about the 'green slime' goes, I just cleaned my horn a few months ago and always make sure I never eat anything right before playing.

I'm sorry but I'm almost embarrassed to ask ... how do I exactly go about checking the valve guide? I haven't done this in the past. Thanks! (Or is just something stupid that I'm not realizing and probably do it all the time?)

Rick F · Post by **Rick F** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 12:29 pm

Daniel8802 wrote:I'm sorry but I'm almost embarrassed to ask ... how do I exactly go about checking the valve guide? I haven't done this in the past. Thanks! (Or is just something stupid that I'm not realizing and probably do it all the time?)

Okay, how about we just swap horns? I'll send you my 15 y.o. 641S (with good valves & guides) and you send me your 842?

Below is a picture of the breakdown of the Yamaha valve for 641, 642 & 842. The valve guide sits atop the cylinder with a small nib or nipple that fits into a small alignment hole. This alignment hole makes sure that the taquet (part that sticks out beyond the valve about 1/16") protrudes correctly into the slot of the valve cylinder. If the valve stem ever got loose the guide could have jumped out of its hole and become miss-aligned. If you're going to take the valve apart, be sure to re-assemble in the correct order. This is important for proper port alignment.

The top of the valve could have also become separated from the valve itself. This is rare, but something that happened with my 4th valve on my 641 about 6 years ago. Kurt Witt of Yamaha told me he'd never heard of that happening before.

It might be best that you ask someone at school to help you.

dwerden · Post by **dwerden** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 10:06 pm

Speaking from experience, one other possibility is that something from your case got itself into the horn. It could be almost anything. It probably would have gone into the bell and not been a big deal (assuming it wasn't large), but as you put the horn down and pick it up, it can move to a smaller diameter tube, which would cause trouble. So take inventory of what you keep in there. For example, do you have any of those foam earplugs loose in the case?

When I went to state contest in high school one year, my solo did not go very well. I noticed horrible tone and intonation during my warmup, but didn't know how to correct it. Only after I played did I realize my valve oil was missing. It had gotten lodged in the first curve below the bell. In this case it was a large enough object that being in that large tube still caused awful problems.

Then years later I was testing a horn that was shipped to me. It felt really stuffy. The company shipping it had put a bag of Styrofoam "peanuts" to pad the bell, and one had slipped out. I found it stuck in one of the valve tubes, which means it had to travel a long way from the bell. In fact, it may have originally fallen in long before they sent it to me, but stayed in the larger tubes for a while causing less trouble.

It's probably a long shot, but always worth checking.

Daniel8802 · Post by **Daniel8802** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 2:12 pm

As far as I can tell all of the pads are in the proper position on the valves. Is this the only thing regarding valve alignment? I think I am feeling air escaping but I'm not entirely sure.

Daniel8802 · Post by **Daniel8802** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 2:32 pm

Well I figured it out!!

... It explains the leaking air too. It turns out that the pad that was on my main spit valve has disappeared. I put my finger on top of it, and it works fine! Does anyone know were I can order a replacement? Thanks

Toobist · Post by **Toobist** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 2:48 pm

tubashaman wrote:Check the waterkey

Then check to see if any slides are leaking.

Have you cleaned the horn yet, or checked the inside!

I check the water key on my CC by taking the slide off and covering one end with my hand and blow to check for leaks, might not work for you...

Good one James!

Somebody benefited from your experience! Good post. That's the sort of advice we look for when we post here. And look at the people who also posted on this topic who, while their experiences would suggest other advice, your advice was the one that helped the most! You may be young, but if you draw on experience that is directly related to the topic/instrument in question, look what happens!

Good work, and I (and I hope others on the list) appreciate it.

Rick F · Post by **Rick F** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 4:44 pm

Daniel8802 wrote:Well I figured it out!! ... It explains the leaking air too. It turns out that the pad that was on my main spit valve has disappeared. I put my finger on top of it, and it works fine! Does anyone know were I can order a replacement? Thanks

Glad you figured it out. In a pinch, you can make a temporary repair with a 'spit ball'. Wad up a small bit of plain paper about 1/4" square and place it in place of the missing cork. Don't be real neat with it... let it fit beyond the metal cap of the valve. It should stay in place and you can even continue using the spit valve if you're careful.

Sometimes it's the easiest / cheapest thing that causes problems.

TubeNet

Euph 842S Problems

Euph 842S Problems

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