Tuba mouthpiece alterations- expensive?

jon112780 · Post by **jon112780** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 7:32 pm

If I have 'any' brass mouthpiece, and I want to make the rim flatter and narrower, who would I go to for this modification? I'm not talking about replating (that would also have to be done), but copying the rim shape from another mouthpiece would be how difficult/expensive?

thanks!

Tubaryan12 · Post by **Tubaryan12** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 10:57 pm

Call Dillions. Last time I checked it was around $50 for a rim contour with replate (that was last year).

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 11:04 pm

Dillons. Indeed. Vladimir recontoured my Curry rim. I am exceptionally pleased with the work. Worth every cent.

Email Vladimir or Matt and they can fix you up.

Casey Tucker · Post by **Casey Tucker** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 2:28 am

heck, you could wait a month or two, save up the money and to to the Texas Bandmasters Association. Plenty of horns/mpc's to try. or if you want one MADE FOR YOU, try karl hammond. shoot him an e-mail (you can get it from his site) and he'll give you a quote. it would probably be more cost efficient, quicker and better results to show when going with either of those options.

-casey

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 8:56 am

Greg wrote:
JPNirschl wrote:Making the rim narrower is also going to affect the cup. My personal view is that you should attend one of the music conventions where mouthpiece suppliers attend, and try some from several suppliers and point out your preferences to the reps. Buying one already done is less expensive than rim switches like you are suggesting, and plus it won't be needing replating.
Unfortunately, most of the spring conventions are passed by now, and you'll likely need to wait until late in the year before you find one.
Or, try this.
http://www.dwerden.com/mouthpieces/tuba.cfm
This guide will allow you to find a mouthpiece closest to what you wish, and then you can try it out.
I am confused as to how making the rim more narrow would affect the cup. Can you explain? I am assuming that it would be part of the outer edge of the rim that would be removed....

If you have a highly rounded rim, for example, to flatten it completely out effectively makes the cup shallower. Also, remember that all cups, whether bowl or funnel, expand from throat to rim. So like trimming off pieces of a paper cone, the more you trim, the shallower it is, and the lesser diameter you end up with. On a mouthpiece, these changes are on the order of a few thou or a hundredth of an inch, maybe a couple hundredths on the cup depth, so it may or may not be noticable to you. Your mileage will definitely vary.

I would imagine that if all you're doing is flattening a moderate rim, you won't lose anything significant in either cup depth or diameter. And if it's the contour that really suits you, then what you gain in comfort and confidence in your rim will outweigh the changes in cup geometry. It did for me, as all I had done was narrow a wide rim to more like 18 width, but without changing the overall contour or "bite" on the inner rim.

Matt and Vladimir will tell you exactly what you're getting into, and if they don't think it's feasible, they will recommend proper alternatives.

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 8:03 pm

Jim makes a good point on the overall outside diameter of the mouthpiece. The way a mouthpiece feels is not just the internal cup diameter, but a combination of the internal cup diameter, "bite" or inner rim angle, contour and placement of the crown of the rim, and the outer fall off.

Two identical mouthpieces, say with a fairly wide rim, will feel completely different depending if the crown of the rim is more to the inner edge or outer edge, or no crown at all, in addition to all the other variables. That's why specs, like on any mouthpiece chart, can only get you in the ball park, like a naturalist's field guide, but won't pin it down for you like an engineering tech manual. Inner cup diameter can be given more importance than it deserves.

But I still say if the Conn Helleberg 120S is what you keep coming back to, and there is nothing negative in the feedback about your tone, intonation, or playing attributable to the mouthpiece, then keep with it.

Mike Finn · Post by **Mike Finn** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 1:12 am

Let's assume that the original poster did mean to simply decrease the width of the rim, which could be done (as was mentioned) by removing material from the outside edge only, thereby reducing overall diameter (outside) but not messing with the cup. This should be relatively safe and easy, and can be done by Vladmir at Dillons (as mentioned) or by Stork, in VT.

JPNirschl wrote:... 'narrower' in itself assumes that you wish to change the rim width, which means taking material not only from the outside diameter but also the inside...

If you take material from the inside of the cup as well, you will actually increase the inside diameter; making the rim narrower in this manner will therefore make the cup wider. Probably not what the OP intended, and not a simple task to blend it with the interior slope of the cup which can involve very complex radii.
MF

mclaugh · Post by **mclaugh** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 8:28 am

JPNirschl wrote:IHowever, 'narrower' in itself assumes that you wish to change the rim width, which means taking material not only from the outside diameter but also the inside.

So essentially, you're claiming that if I take a rim with an 8.97mm wide rim and shave .3mm off the outside of the rim but don't touch the inside, the resultant 8.67mm wide rim is not narrower than the initial 8.97mm rim?

Sounds to me like someone needs to double-check the definition of "narrow."

narrow, v.tr. - To reduce in width or extent; make narrower.

tubatom91 · Post by **tubatom91** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 9:19 pm

I have a few mouthpieces that I'd like to have narrowed to. I am under the inpression that making a rim narrow-er entails taking metal off of the outside of the rim not the inside (that's what makes the most sense to me). I dont really feel much of the outside part of the rim so much as the inside. I have been wrong before so feel free to correct me

.

TubaRay · Post by **TubaRay** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 8:36 am

tubatom91 wrote:I have been wrong before so feel free to correct me .

Is this true? I'm shocked.

Shocked, I tell you!

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:01 am

That is one of the things that Vladimir did for me on my Curry 128D: he shaved the outside rim down to be narrower. The wide rim was too wide for my chin contour, and the mouthpiece was riding up my embochure, causing me to use too much top lip and not enough bottom lip.

Donn · Post by **Donn** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 2:02 pm

tubatom91 wrote:I have a few mouthpieces that I'd like to have narrowed to. I am under the inpression that making a rim narrow-er entails taking metal off of the outside of the rim not the inside (that's what makes the most sense to me). I dont really feel much of the outside part of the rim so much as the inside. I have been wrong before so feel free to correct me .

Well, you know what you want. If it's really like you're going to draw a line around a certain radius from the center and shave it down to that line, then that's just the outside. That's an unusual rim, though.

Maybe it makes more sense to think about it in terms of what rim profile you want - how wide, how flat, where it's rounded, etc. Make a dimensioned drawing of the current rim, and see what's going to have to happen to get from before to after. That will determine how close your changes will come to the cup. I think this point about the profile you end up with, may have been what a previous post meant by geometry.