Double Bell Euphonium

[Dan Schultz]

I own two double-belled euphoniums (a Buescher and a King) and have yet to find a REAL practical use for them.... other than just being fun to have around to toot on every once in a while and cool to have sitting in the music room. I've seen Billy Robinson (Bay City 'Bones) play one with the Golden Gate Park Band in San Francisco and a local here plays one in a turn-of-the-century period band but I don't think I've ever noticed them switching from one bell to the other. One of these days, I'll take one along for when we do 'The Music Man' in concert.

BTW.... I think there are three double-belled euphs running on e**y right now.

[windshieldbug]

I don't think that practically one was supposed to switch bells while playing.

The four valve front-action horns had the switch valve in the pinkie, while the five valve horns have the switch in the (non-existent, for most of us) 6th finger.

I think that their original intention was to give euphonium players in a town band the ability to cover trombone parts without changing horns. Such bands had few players to begin with, and it was probably hard to train a blacksmith on slide trombone just in case you needed one.

In fact, the euphonium I have that was made for Simone Mantia has a lock on the 5th valve.

They look cool, and I think that soon everyone had to have one, whether you actually used the second bell, or not.

As far as solos, as I say, mine actually has a lock that gets in the way of fast usage, never the less, I worked up a version of Carnival of Venice that had me switching bells along with implied two horn articulation in the final variation and cadenza.

Playing on one IS very cool!

[eupher61]

There are recordings extant of Mantia, who definitely used the switch valve while playing. The last variation of Venice, IIRC, and Enduring Young Charms and Auld Lang Syne all have obvious bell changing, audible despite the recording quality.

[Teubonium]

Look for a CD called Horns Aplenty by Betty O'Hara. She does jazz on trumpet, valve 'bone, and DB euph.

"It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing, doo wah, doo wah, doo wah..."

is done on the double-bell with the doo wah effect being done by bell switching.

Also, my Dad played a double-bell euph in a small community band in the 1930's. He used the small bell to play trombone cues.

[druby]

I have a beautiful Holton 5-valve double bell. It was one of Holton's last DB euph's, manufactured in 1942 for the US Gov't. The horn is in almost pristine shape with just one minor visible repair and 100% original satin silver.

A characteristic of most of these horns is that they are HEAVY. My Holton weighs more than my compensating Besson euph. It is awkward to hold since the angle of the lead pipe requires that the horn be held out away from the body.

Intonation is often pretty skethy too. I find that the small side plays sharp to the regular side of the horn. I have to pull the small tuning slide out till it almost falls out. On my horn, the small side actually slots better and plays better than the large side. The large side of the euph has a horribly flat low Bb.

I enjoy pulling out the double bell for Tuba christams and occasionally for a town band gig, but even though the horn is very sound both mechanically and cosmetically, it just does not play nearly as well as a modern horn.

[windshieldbug]

... then there's the Conn double-bell alto

[eupher61]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqddmIie2vk" target="_blank

Bob Romans and Co. Great Band!!!

[Dan Schultz]

... then there's the Conn double-bell alto

I'll show you mine if you'll show me yours!

[windshieldbug]

I'll show you mine if you'll show me yours!

[Carroll]

I heard Ashley Alexander swap fours with himself once... way cool.

[Todd S. Malicoate]

I heard Ashley Alexander swap fours with himself once... way cool.

Check out Ashley's solo on "Waltzing Matilda" with the Matteson-Philips Tubajazz Consort. A virtuoso example of the jazz possibilities of the double-bell.

[Bandmaster]

I'll show you mine if you'll show me yours!

Then there are the ones that Dan Oberloh has restored:

[J.c. Sherman]

I used to own a Conn 5v Double bell from the 30s. It was my main/only euph for quite a while. The euphonium side was stellar! I even added a rotory flat whole step valve to the 4th valve loop, making what I think was the only 6v double bell! The sound was awsome with a Perantucci 2A mouthpiece.

The second bell served me well for the baritone solo in the Holst 1st Suite, some moments in Lincolnshire, and certainly some humor. I converted both bells to upright (still conn bells) and could mute either bell, for some fun effects and social acceptability.

Two problems: It weighed a ton. No small matter, really; it was seriously ungainly. Second problem: I could never warm up - I always had to explain the darn thing to 14 people at every gig and discuss it with 12 others. Got annoying, actually...

So I restored it's original bells, removed the 6th valve, and traded it for a 5v Yamaha 321. Now she has a real cool instrument for tuba events, and I get left alone to warm up. Still planning to get a Connstelation 4v some day - miss that Conn sound!

J.c.S.

[tokuno]

. . . and traded it for a 5v Yamaha 321.
J.c.S.

A YEP-321, i.e. euphonium?
Intrigued. What's the 5th valve do, and where's it wired in - what's the flow?

I have a suspicion that a used YEP-321s could be triggered for a total cost well under $2k, and might out-compete my Besson 967 for playability.

[J.c. Sherman]

There was a period of time when the YEP-321 Euph was offered with an optional 5th valve, thich was located on a removable 4th valve slide. You could either have it on, or reduce the weight and put in the normal tuning slide. It was operated by the left thumb.

They were tuned to a flat whole step, or a really nice low E or B with 4 & 5. Mine was retuned to a flat whole step. Proble I had was that the thing weighed so much, it kept falling out. So I moved it to a permanent location on the 4th tubing, and it's wonderful (pictures on request).

I heard that Yamaha stopped offering the 5th because people were not purchasing their 600 series euphs since the 321 was cheeper and had a full range (plus, it rocked!) with the 5th valve.

J.c.S>

[J.c. Sherman]

JC, have you considered making the 5th valve an INdependent valve (probably after teh piston valves)?

Indeed I did.

But the original valve and it's knuckles were best set up to put where I did, roughly in the open space of the 4th valve tubing. Also, the way the main tubing comes out forward rapidly after the valve section, makes a main pipe addition somewhat problematic. I could do it, but I'm not unhappy with the way it is now. Tuning is really quite good as it is...

J.c.S.

[tokuno]

Tuning is really quite good as it is...
J.c.S.

Do you think a kicker on the main tuning slide would provide sufficient throw for the Eb down to B#, and also take care of the sharp 6th partial?
I'm thinking it would be easier and cheaper for me to buy used and add a trigger, as opposed to locating a 5th valve-equipped 4th slide and also paying for a relocation job off the slide . . .

[druby]

Do you think a kicker on the main tuning slide would provide sufficient throw for the Eb down to B#, and also take care of the sharp 6th partial?

I have a 4V Conn 24I Connstellation that has a main slide kicker. With all 4 valves down and the kicker out ALL of the way, I can just get C-natural in tune. I play Db with 1-3-4 and little kicker and play the rest using standard fingering with a little or no kicker. There is no way to get the low Cb above pedal Bb in tune. To play a Cb, I use 1-2-3-4, kicker, and lip down as much as I can. Even then it still is 20+ cents sharp. The kickers only add 3-4 inches of total tubing (1.5" to 2" on each side of the main slide).

On my Conn (and the YEP321's) the 6th partial (Eb, E, F) is not nearly as sharp as it is on most compensating horns. Thus if sharp at all, the kicker does work nicely. Where the kicker works best is C and Cb above low Bb (not pedal Bb). These notes can be played either 1-3 and 1-2-3 with a bit of kicker, or 4 and 2-4 respectively w/o kicker.

I think you would just have to add too much tubing to get Cb (1-2-3-4) and C-nat (1-3-4) using just kicker. I really don't think you could kick the main slide on a 4V YEP-321 enough to pull the Cb (1-2-3-4) into tune. Then again, maybe I'm wrong.

Doug

[andrew the tuba player]

heres another good video of a Conn DB Euphonium. Kind of interesting if you don't know how they work. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vK5VDhs_Rrk" target="_blank

[J.c. Sherman]

Probably...

I use a DEG tuba stand to play mine (yes, the DEG sucks, but I'm poor...), and I palm the 1st valve slide at times (it's really free on mine). But if I'm standing, I don't need the slide. But it's nice on some chords, and on low Db...

Never considered the main slide kicker - I have enough going on
and the 5th valve doesn't do a thing for the Ebs except the low and pedal tones...

J.c.S.