Repair Question: Soldering Materials?

Mudman · Post by **Mudman** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 11:58 am

An f-attachment tubing brace came unsoldered on my bass bone. The brace is small (the size of a pencil eraser), and not near any sensitive valve areas that might warp from too much heat. I would like to make the repair myself.

What materials will I need to do the soldering? Can everything I need be purchased at a store like Ace Hardware?

Soldering tips? (I've checked out a few websites in the past which detail the process. Do you have any good links to recommend?)

Thanks in advance,

Mudman

Chuck(G) · Post by **Chuck(G)** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 12:14 pm

If the brace is small and both parts of the attachment point still have solder on them, you might just want to clamp the assembly together and use one of those butane cigar-lighter torches to sweat the joint back together.

Otherwise, a propane torch with a fine pencil tip, 60/40 or 70/30 solid core solder and liquid flux is the standard way--but you'll fikely have to clean the joint up after soldering and you'll run the risk of burning the lacquer or staining the silver plating.

For something this small, why not take the thing to someone who won't make a hash of it?

Dan Schultz · Post by **Dan Schultz** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 12:30 pm

Chuck's advice is good. I have one question, though... is the joint that is loose and rod and socket joint with a flange soldered to the horn or is it a butt joint that attaches parts of the brace together? If it's a rod and socket joint, then procede with Chuck's information. If its a butt joint, then it was probably originally brazed... in which case soft solder won't do and you should either buy a new brace assembly or take it to a qualified technician to have the old brace assembly removed from the horn, repaired... then refit to the horn.

Mudman · Post by **Mudman** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 1:34 pm

The brace is a metal rod with a curved end that matches the curve of the f-tubing. It was originally soldered to the tubing. I will try to sweat the joint back together with some heat and clamping.

Thanks for the tips--I know this question probably comes across as "should I play the VW for my JR. High audition on a BBBb tuba with a PT88+ ?!"

This repair is a calculated risk. There is nobody in my town I trust for the repair, and I have a gig coming up before I will be anywhere near Bloke's shop.

Art Hovey · Post by **Art Hovey** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 11:50 pm

Here's what works for me: cut off a small length of Radio Shack rosin core solder, bend it into a coil, and slip it between the pieces that need to be soldered together. Then heat the joint with a propane torch while pressing the parts together with a screwdriver. When it gets hot enough the solder will suddenly melt, and you will feel the parts snap together. Continue heating for only a second or two, then let it cool while maintaining pressure with the screwdriver. If any droplets ooze out you can cut them off later with a knife. If you are lucky the laquer will not be scorched. If the joint fails again then there is corrosion in there that needs to be cleaned out before soldering again.

Daniel C. Oberloh · Post by **Daniel C. Oberloh** » Fri Oct 01, 2004 1:08 am

Well Art, I suppose that would work though it will probably not look as good in the end as it could.

Propane is a lower temp flame then what is typically used on band instruments and will take the brass longer to reach the melting point of the solder where it will flow. This gets a much larger area of the instrument very hot making a mess of the silver or lacquer finish (if the finish exists at all) but it also allows the joint to oxidize which will end with a weak solder bond, if it bonds at all. Rosin core does not work as well with this type of repair as it is primarily for electrical work. It is best to use a flux that is applied separately from the solder as this allows the joint to be properly cleaned by applying flux as needed. If the joint has been broken long and the solder is not bright at the point of the break you must get the solder area clean and bright prior to any attempt at resoldering, emory paper can be pulled through the break to expose clean metal thaugh I prefer to remove the brace completely and perform a more detaild cleaning and then wire the brace in place. If the break is due to stresses caused by other damage, the additional damage should be corrected prior to soldering. If you just force the joint together it will simply once again break due to the still existing stress. Fix it right or forget it. If it is a decent horn I would recommend that you have the repair done by a Pro and develop your soldering skills on some scrap. If its a junker? Have at it.

Daniel C. Oberloh

http://www.oberloh.com[/u]

tubarepair · Post by **tubarepair** » Fri Oct 01, 2004 4:52 pm

Dan makes many excellent points in his post. As he indicated, if it is worth anything you should take it to a qualified repair technician.

The thought from another poster that indicated that it feels much better doing it yourself than opening the wallet is also accurate - unless of course you make a mess of the horn and are forced to pay a pro to correct your mistakes. Usually, there will be a customer stupidity charge that will far exceed the original cost of repair.

Daryl Hickman

Mudman · Post by **Mudman** » Fri Oct 01, 2004 11:29 pm

Discretion is going to be the better part of valour in this case.

The pro horn will make it through the gig with an unsoldered brace. Your soldering tips will first be put to use on an old tenor with a loose brace. If that repair goes well, with no burnt laquer, I might take a whack at the good horn.

Thanks again!

Lee Stofer · Post by **Lee Stofer** » Sat Oct 02, 2004 4:09 pm

Mudman,
Good man! Discretion is a great idea. I would not want to do the work on your horn without having over $500.00 worth of equipment that most people do not have lying around the house. Yes, go and visit Bloke when you can, and send him my regards.