History of the Conn 2J CC (with Pictures . . .)

[Steve Inman]

OK -- how would I search this forum for comparisons or opinions of the Conn 2J vs. the Conn 3J tubas?

When I try "3J vs 2J" or any such combination, all my search terms are ignored. Likewise when I search for "Conn 3J" -- the "3J" term is ignored.

OR -- should I start a parallel thread with this question? (I hope not, as this MUST have been discussed before.)

Thanks,

[Art Hovey]

In response to Phil Dawson: The BBb version is the 5J. -An excellent student instrument, useful for small ensembles, nice response & intonation, but definitely not a BAT.

[Phil Dawson]

The 3J is also a small instrument great for quintet type things. The bracing and construction though are of pro quality instead of student quality.
Phil

[Steve Inman]

The 3J is also a small instrument great for quintet type things. The bracing and construction though are of pro quality instead of student quality.
Phil

Phil -- does this mean that the 2J is a "student" level horn, while the 3J is a "better" quality horn, with respect to construction? Or -- are these two horns about the same in all respects except for bell diameter?

Thanks!

[Dave Hayami]

Hello,
2J CC, 4J BBb
(both 3 and 4 valve siblings seen with Olds and Reynolds names and numbers, see Tuba Tinkers picture of a 4 valve "small" Reynolds tuba)
I have a Conn 2J CC , a 4 valve Reynolds BBb and a 3 valve Olds BBb. They all share the same valves,and tuning slides.The Olds and Conn valve caps are the same(Conn Nickel plated) Reynolds has different style with felt in the cap. The bracing on the Conn is a little "lighter" than the Olds or the Reynolds(Think School environment BBb)
I enjoy playing my 2J, it is to me, a "fun"horn easy to play,nice sound just not "a Big" sound.
I also own a Mirafone 186 5V CC, a Cervney 5/4 CC,and a YEB 321(4 valve Eb)
Way back in a former life(a Kollije stewdent) the 186 was my only horn so it saw duty in all ensembles from Symphonic Orchestra to Brass Quintets/trios.
The 2J and the 321 have taken up the small ensemble stuff .

3J CC, 5J BBb
Haven't had a chance to play the 3J but had about 30mins on a HS 5J.
Felt very similar to the BBb Reynolds.

I think, most of the people playing either the 2J or the 3J,enjoy them in appropriate ensembles,and know when to bring a different horn to different ensembles.
My $00.02
Dave Hayami

[Phil Dawson]

It has been several years since I had the two horns side by side but the things I remember are:
The CC3J had more and heavier bracing that the BBb2J
The 3J had heavier valve caps both top and bottom
The valves may have been of different diameters but I'm not sure.
The 3J had the top of the outer slides rolled over for protection and to guide the inner slide. whereas the 2J outer slides were just cut off with no protection. This made it harder to reinsert the 2Js slides after pulling them out to drain water.
The 2J just didn't have the same feel as the 3J - of course I owned the 3J and the high school (I was teaching at the time) owned the 2J so I may not have been completely unbiased in my observations. The differences I noticed were more in the realm of cosmetics and durability than playability.
Both horns played very well in tune and had very good response. I still have my 3J and it is great for quintet work although I still prefer the sound of my MIraphone 1290.
Phil

[imperialbari]

Conn 4J from 1968 cat .jpg

The 1968 cat text has been attached to my posting on page 1 of this thread. That catalogue doesn't show the 2J, but relates it as the CC version of the BBb 4J, which is is represented by the attached photo.

Klaus

[jonesbrass]

Conn 4J from 1968 cat .jpg

The 1968 cat text has been attached to my posting on page 1 of this thread. That catalogue doesn't show the 2J, but relates it as the CC version of the BBb 4J, which is is represented by the attached photo.

Klaus

Klaus, you are correct. The details on the old 4J BBb are exactly the same as my 2J CC. Very nice, simple 4V horn. No frills, just plays terrific.

[IkeH]

In 1973 I bought a 2j as a first horn owned by me after graduating college. It was a demo in great shape and I payed $1000. You usually got a short and long 4th valve slide - I used the longer one and employed the 1&3 fingering( I think w/a slide pull) and used the 4&1 for F, etc. The open horn I believe was in tune enough not to use alternate fingerings and it was very easy to play. Being a Bobo fan, I ended up trading for a 184, which put me in a tailspin of owning various Mirafone models. I'm now using a lil raw brass piggy, which reminds me of the 2j, but is more open and warm sounding and lacks the intonation of the Conn. The 2J is still in town and being played - they were made like tanks. Oh- the nickel bell of yours in the pics reminded me of a 4J that the school had bought before I finished. It was a little stuffy to blow and didn't see much action. I take it yours doesn't share that problem(?).

Ike

[MikeMason]

Just bought my old 2j back and revisited this thread.what great little solo/small ensemble tubas these are! And prices below new Chinese can be had with patience.

[bisontuba]

I just heard from Eastman that they are going to be at TMEA and are bringing one of the EBC-632 CC tubas.

The Conn series 5XJ CC tubas had a lot of compromises. My prototype to the Conn 5XJ had 3 different taper ratios in the 3rd branch. The Conn idiots measured the large and small diameters then made a straight tapered mandrel when I warned them what I did. It was so bad and they were too cheap to make a new mandrel that they went to just cutting the BBb branch and using a step ferrule. That large side of the 3rd branch ended up too small and is why the E in the staff is so flat on a 5XJ. The bottom line G being flat on the Conn 5XJ was caused by not following my tapers in the 5th branch. The C below the staff having a subtle slot in-tune but a power slot 40 cents flat is because of the knuckles right after the 4th into the main t/s. Those can be cleaned up to give the horn a safer slot. Also, that bulky 4th valve wrap is because Rob Phillips at Conn was forced to stay with only the crooks he had in stock.
The .750" bore 5th rotor on the Conn was not a hollowed out design so it wasn't a true .750" bore. The Conn's play so much better without the 5th rotor. The new Eastman has a properly made .770" bore 5th rotor and tubing. The Conn uses detachable joints at the leadpipe and the 5th valve that are quick to leak if everything is not perfect.

[/quote]Greetings,

My Conn 2J has serial number 675xxx. In December of 1971, by prearrangement, I traveled to Bloomington, IN, to meet with a very kind, and generous Harvey Phillips, who had borrowed a local music store owner's keys so that he could open the store after hours (I was traveling from a considerable distance) to allow me to try out three "new" Conn 2J's that were supposed to be new copies of Mr. Phillips' horn. We both played and agreed upon one horn - which I purchased, and still own - as being the best of the group.

Mr. Phillip's expressed disappointment that Conn had taken several money saving manufacturing shortcuts, therefore not really producing the exact instrument Mr. Phillips and Conn designers had worked on together.

[/quote]

Hi-
Not to change the thread, but when you see Conn's recent history of fumbling of copying tubas--Harvey's CC tuba for the 2J and Matt's horn for the 5xJ, it does make one wonder IF they had copied each one EXACTLY like the original without going for the 'cheapest way to do it,' how they would have done in tuba sales yesterday and today....they didn't need to invent the wheel, but just copy the wheel.....