high school

[TubaRay]

I see two problems...

1) Teachers who do not know or care.
2) Students who do not know or care.

I can certainly agree with this.

Basicaly, I think all students are good... at least in the beginning. It's how they are taught that makes the difference.

I've gotta disagree with this. I try very hard to teach this. I have many students who don't care about taking care of anything, much a school-owned instrument.

[PWtuba]

I have many students who don't care about taking care of anything, much a school-owned instrument.

Most of my tuba colleagues at my high school don't give a dime about their horns, either. As a result, the really nice Meinls we have are in terrible condition.

Luckily, I have my own horn...

[tubaguy9]

One thing that has perplexed me for some time:

Why do band directors (or whoever makes the orders) buy those Yamaha YBB-641's? Miraphone 186-4U Pro Series (Not even the "Standard" version) BBb's go for almost 2 grand less, so the decision, to me, is nonexistant. Is it the Yamaha name or what?

There are better tubas out there, but the 641 isn't horrid.

Yeah, but the Yamaha 321's are horrid.

[Dan Schultz]

The YBB-641 tubas cost thousands more than the B&S-made "Accent" tubas, but are clearly inferior to the B&S-made "Accent" tubas.

YBB-641 are (apparently) tubas designed to be sold to non-tuba playing band directors and school system purchasing departments...not tuba players.

I totally agree. Those YBB-641 tubas are a perfect example of marketing people hard at work. The popularity of these horns is certainly NOT a matter of how good they play!

[iiipopes]

I agree. A local dealer is the Yamaha dealer. They have "connections" all over the area, and the marketing hype goes well beyond those particular Yamaha instruments that are quality instruments. A friend of mine went on and on about getting one for his son. Funny thing, however: I don't hear him talking about it now.

[tubacrow]

Are we discussing the Pre numbering change of Yamaha? because if memory serves currently the YBB-641 is their lowest of the professional line. I am not defending the yamaha product or any brand for that matter, but I am just asking for the clarity.
I would also like to have had the buget while I was teaching that apperantly some of these schools have. I had to fight to get the money to buy a reconditioned Miraphone for the school district. I actually had to go to the school board meeting and play on the schools Lyons and Heally tuba, which had spent over fifty years in students hands.

[Todd S. Malicoate]

Its been discussed in the past the Yahama BBbs like the YBB641 arent really professional models

Yamaha certainly considers the YBB-641 to be a professional horn. See the website:

http://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/CDA/Con ... 00,00.html

But, I suppose that opens up a whole 'nother can o' worms.

[adam0408]

What I am considerably shocked at is the fact that so many high schoolers on here own their own (most pretty nice it seems) horns. How is that possible?

Did you buy one instead of a car? I am curious! I didn't even think about getting my own horn until college, and I got a lot of financial help purchasing it.

As far as the Yamaha debate, the 641s do suck, but aren't horrible for school horns. Sometimes I think they are better suited for high school work than a miraphone 186, although I feel the 186 is a much better horn. I played a 186 all through high school, and I enjoyed the experience. When it comes down to it, you're kind of comparing apples and oranges. The 641 was obviously not built with the professional player in mind.

As far as I am concerned, St. Petes belong where they came from: A Russian scrap heap.

Now, this might ruffle some feathers, but I feel a nice tuba for high school playing is a waste of money except in cases of extreme talent and dedication. Most high schoolers can't play well enough to justify the roughly $5000+ expense of a CC tuba.

Please don't take offense at that comment. I realize many of you probably have very bright futures and are dedicated to your art. However, the average high school tubist(including myself at that age) fits my profile.

[bearphonium]

"Back in the day" (mid 70's, if you're curious) my high school had two enormous bell front tubas that lived in tuba stands, a smaller 3 valve upright that was played all the time, and an ancient silver Eb utpright that no one played, except me goofing around at lunch and in jazz band. My senior year, they added a Miraphone (don't know the number, 4 rotor upright, probably a 186). Nobody owned their own tuba or euph, and I think bassoon and oboe were provided as well.

Ally"who owns more instruments as a hobbiest than she ever did in highschool or college"House

[adam0408]

We played YBB 641s. In my experience, they're not too bad. They're not amazing, but a good player can certainly get good sounds out of them.

I think you hit the nail on the head there. As far as being a horn worth the asking price... now thats debatable.

I think they are a very good high school horn.

[Rick Denney]

Its been discussed in the past the Yahama BBbs like the YBB641 arent really professional models

You are saying that just because professionals don't like them (put me down as agreeing with that assessment). But they are about as well-made as Yamaha's instruments that professional do like. My 621 F tuba, of the same series, is made using similar levels of detailing, and is mostly used by professionals, given the relatively small number of amateurs who play F tubas.

The 600 series is the "pro" series, and the 800 series are called "custom", for whatever that's worth.

Not too many pros would use a Miraphone 186 these days, but the standard 186 (not the 186S) is called a pro model without any argument from anyone.

Rick "thinking the Miraphone 186 was Target Number One by Yamaha when they introduced the 641" Denney

[Rick Denney]

Ally"who owns more instruments as a hobbiest than she ever did in highschool or college"House

I have to confess that I did own my own tuba upon graduation from high school. It was a Besson Stratford that looked as though it had been used as an (effective) offensive weapon in the second World War, and it had the 6000 dents to prove it. My high-school band director had "thrown it away", allowing me to provide the dumpster.

It was also in pieces, and I did not attempt to make it playable until I returned to tuba playing eight years later. The first tuba I actually bought was a Cerveny-made Sanders that I bought in 1984. I traded the Besson (and some cash) for a valve trombone. Later, I traded the Sanders and a Musica F tuba for a Miraphone 186.

In school, I played a plastic King sousaphone from when I started in 7th grade up through the last half of my senior year. I took it to solo contest, and always got first divisions playing such solos as Air and Bourree. That last semester, my band director was able to borrow a Miraphone for me from a friend of his at Rice University. I appreciated having a real tuba, but I did not appreciate the opportunity to really learn to play it well. I did play those high E's in Carmina Burana on that instrument.

I identify complete with Bloke's description of growing up. Our standard of living is so much higher now that it's hard to imagine how it was just a few decades ago. And I expect those now in high school can't imagine it at all.

I still remember stripping and painting several of our plastic sousaphones so that they would match. We always turned them in looking better than when we got them--that was just a matter of pride.

Rick "the hobbiest hobbyist of them all" Denney

[Jesse Brook]

I owned my own tuba coming out of high school. Yes, I did choose a tuba instead of a car, but it was only a $2000 tuba instead of a $1000 car. For $2000 I got a great deal, and I expect I'll still be playing it decades from now.

Yamaha YBB-641s are built like tanks, but so are old Besson 3-valve BBb tubas. There is absolutely no reason to choose a 641 over some other industrial-grade tuba other than that fancy logo on the bell. Up here in Canada, there are only Yamaha dealers, or so it seems. The Holton and Jupiter alternatives are there, but few band programs take those (better) options.

Yes, high school students generally do carry a disregard for their instruments that is little short of instrumenticide. It goes away after Grade 8 or so, to be replaced by an indifference in the last few grades. As long as there are indifferent students, there will be indifferent tubas (and euphoniums). I think that a band program should provide at least one better tuba, if they can, though.

My high school provided one of the oddest assortment of tubas that I have ever seen. An Eb 3 top valve from Holland. A BBb 3 top valve from Toronto, one of only two I have ever seen made here. A couple small YBB-103s, a YBB-201 with everything stove in, and a Piper (Amati stencil) 4-valve rotary. And my starter horn, a Jupiter 378L. No sousas, but no marching program ever, either.

[eupher61]

sheesh...I played a King or Conn Souzie (school had one of each in brass, 2 Conn fiberglass) for everything until I bought a horn my senior year. 641s? I don't feel bad for you at all...

[Kayla]

When I started band in grade school, my mom got me a used Bach student trumpet and I thought it was the greatest thing on the planet. We were in great poverty, but anything bought like a trumpet was cherished greatly.

When I switched to tuba in 8th grade (middle school), I was given two tubas - one to take home to use and the "nicer" one to keep at school. This was so transportation was not a problem. The practice horn looked like something off an old truck - dents, creases, and holes everywhere. The tuba at school wasn't much better but it was better nonetheless. Anyway, I taped up the holes and practiced away.

The first two and a half years of high school I played on a really crummy Yamaha 3/4 3 valve. We went through three band directors while I was there, the second one was a tuba player. Before he left, he highly recommended buying Miraphone 186's since me and another kid were really good players, we would do the horns justice. So, we got them during the third director's time during my junior year and I loved it.

This past year of college I played on another Miraphone 186 which was older, but played about the same. After much begging and convincing, my grandmother bought me a used Kalison DP C. I treasure that tuba as much as others cherish their Baer's and Firebird's.

---

I was greatly thankful for my high school buying the Miraphones, it made me a much better player and sealed the deal for what I was going to do in college. Had I continued to play on the crappy 3/4, I would be in another major.

[Dan Schultz]

School horns that look bad and school horns that play badly are two distinctly different things. Refinishing is very expensive but simply paying a little money to have dents removed and leaks fixed are an altogether different matter. That being said, there is absolutely no excuse to treat horns badly just because they are cosmetically 'challenged'. I'm not directing that statement at anyone here but just stating the fact that tubas should be taken care of even though they don't look the greatest.

[rocksanddirt]

regarding a few of the thoughts of "how/why does this kid have a nice horn". Parents who are supportive of the artistic endevors of their kids will put up some $$ for horns. In addition, if you go without a car, get a job, play at the farmers market, etc, for more cash.

If the eldest keeps up, I'm going to be look'n at a good fiddle pretty soon, and if you wanna talk lots of money for what you get, start pricing fiddles.

[lgb&dtuba]

I'm going to agree with Rick that the overall standard of living is significantly higher today than it used to be.

My parents never bought any music instruments for me. Other than the trumpets, clarinets, flutes or alto saxes hardly any parent bought band instruments for their kids in the early 60's. The rest of us played school owned instruments. I never even saw a tuba, let alone played one in high school. We had a couple of National Guard surplus sousaphones.

The school was small, as schools tended to be in those days. This was pre-busing and small towns had small schools. We had marching and concert band - not orchestra. That was the norm in those days. I don't recall any band member from my high school becoming a music major in college.

It wasn't a question of being poor, although parents in the 60's had a lot less disposable income than today.

By the time I had my own kids I was making more money than my father ever did. More disposable income. And I disposed of it freely.

My daughter had her own flute in band. My son had his own trombone. My daughter took piano lessons from the time she was 5. We bought an entry level piano, which she had completely worn the action out on by the time she was 12. So we bought a much better piano to replace it. That piano costs us $10k in 1988. We still have it and it still plays like new. And if our daughter ever gets a larger house she'll finally get it out of our living room

The point is that I can easily see how a supportive parent can and will spend a fair amount of money on a tuba for their kid. Yes, tuba's are expensive, but pianos and violins can be even more expensive. Even in the 60's a lot of homes had pianos if their kids took lessons.

The fact that we old farts didn't have this and that in our younger years doesn't make that a virtue or a reason to not provide those things for our own kids, if we can. Do our kids appreciate it? About as much as we appreciated what we had when we were that age, I'd say.