Manual Vs. Automatic

[The Big Ben]

My car is almost 15 years old and looks like a piece of crap (1994 chevy corsica), but it gets good gas mileage.

So, I am figuring eventually I will need to get another car when I land a tuba job or whatnot, and was wondering Automatic vs Manual.....ive never driven manual but I hear its kind of fun and you can get way better gas mileage when doing it right

Some questions about Manual:

How would you come to a sudden stop if your in 5th gear

Put on brake just like normal. Push in the clutch to keep the car from stalling. Might want to downshift, too.

Is it really hard to learn

How do you do it

You could get a friend to teach you. Depending on the car you are going to drive it might be easy or hard. I was teaching a buddy to drive a stick with my car and it was easy. The clutch let out gradually. However, on his car, the clutch was like a light switch- either on or off. There was about a two inch range between clutch in and clutch out. I had lots of experience with the stick so did OK with it but it was really frustrating for him. Oh, yeah. We were in Seattle and he worked downtown. If you have been a visitor to Seattle, you know that downtown is all hills and manual cars take a real touch to get started after stopping on an uphill. (If your feet aren't fast enough, you need to use the e-brake to hold the car as you let the clutch out and pop the e-brake off at the same time as you reach full out on the clutch. T'ain't as hard as it sounds but 'ya gotta learn how to do it.")

Another option (maybe better) would be going to a driving school. I would think that a comprehensive driving school would also have an option of manual shift instruction for people who already have a license. A one hour lesson and a one hour followup the next week hopefully would do the job, probably in there car so if you are a hopeless spaz, you might save yourself the trouble of buy a car with a stick

I actually prefer a stick but my current cars were bought used at bargain prices for what they were so I didn't have any choice on options. If I was ordering a brand new car, I probably would get a stick but I don't see myself getting a new from the lot car ever again,

Jeff "The wheels on the bus go round and round..." Benedict

[Todd S. Malicoate]

Finally...a post an old auto parts salesman can sink his teeth into.

ive never driven manual but I hear its kind of fun and you can get way better gas mileage when doing it right

"Fun" is in the eye of the beholder...I find driving a manual transmission (the occasional foray into a delivery truck) tedious and tiring, but you may like something new for a change.

Manuals don't get "way better gas mileage", unless we are talking about cars older than 10 years or so. The newest models have the difference down to around 5% better mileage for manuals. Back when an automatic tranny only had 3 or 4 speeds then yes, a manual could get much better mileage. But today's automatic transmissions have as many as 8 "speeds" and a nearly infinite number of gear ratios using a series of belts...google CVT, or Continuously Variable Transmission for more info.

Some questions about Manual:

How would you come to a sudden stop if your in 5th gear

By stomping on the brake! Brakes work the same way in a manual transmission vehicle...in fact, most stick-shifters instinctively press the clutch with the pedal when coming to a complete stop, thereby removing transmission load for even faster stopping (kind of like stomping the brake and shifting into neutral in an automatic).

Is it really hard to learn

Varies...are you a fast learner?

How do you do it

You take a stick-shift car to an isolated area and practice the fine art of easing down on the accelerator while easing out on the clutch. Lather, rinse, repeat...

(and I want to learn it to be better at work)

How will learning to drive a stick help you change tires? (Not a trick question or flame...really doesn't follow to me)

In my next car in the next years i might consider this option

Very few models (less than 10 years old) even offer a manual transmission now...good luck.

Todd S. "who had this same conversation on the parts counter today" Malicoate

[Rick Denney]

You'll have to shift at just the right time, every time, to get better fuel economy with a stick. My bet is that 1 in a 100 people may achieve it on occasion, unless maybe the car is one of these lawn-mower-sized vehicles with a model airplane engine. But even shifted perfectly, the difference is slight--the Toyota Yaris gets the same either way. I'll bet the auto gets better mileage when driven by the typical person. The newer computer-controlled auto transmissions are really, really good.

To come to a sudden stop, you mash the brake pedal. If it's an emergency, that's all you do. If it's not, you'll remember to also put your left foot on the clutch, so that when you stop you won't kill the engine.

I learned how to drive a clutch on a VW bus. Perfect vehicle for that. The clutch linkage was about 20 feet long and the shift linkage was pretty mushy, too. The engine was small but had a broad power band, so it would probably not die even if you didn't give it enough gas when letting out the clutch.

The trick is to give the engine just enough gas to keep it from dying while letting out the clutch, until the vehicle is moving with the clutch fully engaged. Shifting gears after that is a no-brainer--I can do it absent-mindedly without even using the clutch.

Find someone with a very small car with a very small engine, and get them to take you to a parking lot when it's empty. Remember: easy, greasy.

Rick "who drove a car for six months in college with a non-functional clutch" Denney

[Todd S. Malicoate]

Part of my job,s ince im one of the most experienced techs becasue everyone is quitting with better jobs, is driving cars into the bay. Whenever I get a car that is stick, I always have to get a manager to drive it in because I do not know how to drive stick, and customer cars arent a way to practice

Makes sense, and no offense intended...didn't think of that angle.

[Wyvern]

In England manual cars are still the norm. That was all I drove for years before getting an automatic. I would now never go back to manual. Just like using a manual exposure camera, unless you enjoy making yourself extra work, why bother with all the extra effort with inferior results unless you are really skilled? I have noticed no difference in fuel use.

[lgb&dtuba]

I've owned both manual and automatics over the years. Since I learned to drive on manual I can't really speak to how difficult it might be for you to learn now. Manual is second nature to me.

That said, I prefer automatic. Especially in stop and go city traffic where you'll spend most of your time with your foot on the clutch, stopped. Yes, I know you can alway shift into neutral and let the clutch back out, but if you do that you just become part of the problem as it takes you extra time to shift into gear and get rolling again.

My last manual was a Miata. I miss that car. Great fun tearing down back roads on a Sunday morning. Not so much fun sitting in traffic with an SUV or semi a foot behind me. My wife can't/won't learn stick and hated riding with the top down.

I think the idea of a manual getting better milage than an automatic is pretty much a hold over from the early days of automatic transmissions. Unless you're talking about a 1.5L or less engine. YMMV

[Dean]

James,

Do you have experience with any vehicle with a standard? Even a motorcycle, dirt bike, quad, perhaps a garden tractor with a foot-clutch?

I am not great with a standard, but I drove ATV's and dirt bikes for several years as a kid, so the mechanics of shifting/clutch mechanism were still there. Just had to change from hand throttle/clutch to foot throttle/clutch (and hand shifter).

Still, I find standards tedious. If you anticipate yourself in a high-traffic area any time soon, I wouldn't recommend one. Stop-and-go traffic is awful with a standard. I haven't found a CAR that I can truly operate the clutch with comfort, as I am 6' 3" and you need good left leg clearance around the steering wheel and the driver door to be comfy with a clutch.

Standards are usually cheaper than autos. And yes, if you drive them right, you can get significantly better mileage than their auto counterparts.

[Karl H.]

...in fact, most stick-shifters instinctively press the clutch with the pedal when coming to a complete stop, thereby removing transmission load for even faster stopping (kind of like stomping the brake and shifting into neutral in an automatic).

(The whole family is still sleeping off ITEC fatigue, so since I couldn’t get in the shower without waking the Sainted Mrs., I had time this morning for a long rant: forgive me).

I think you may have it backwards here. The “load” on the transmission you refer to, others would call “engine brake” and is a way to decrease stopping distance. This can be demonstrated in a manual by leaving the car in 1st from a stop, accelerating to about 30 mph and lifting your foot off the throttle: your body will lurch forward, as the car slows rapidly without even touching the brake.

Scares me to think of the coming-to-a-stop process your way. Putting your foot on the clutch pedal at the same time you depress the brake pedal effectively turns your manual into a chunkier automatic, negating many of the advantages of manuals. For me it’s:

1. Foot off gas
2. Foot on brake
3. Foot on clutch

Situations vary and I will spend different amounts of time with each step, but the above process may not progress past Step 1. I spend less time using the brakes (and mine last much longer with a manual) and only use the clutch when I’m changing gears.

This brings me to one of a couple of points in favor of manual transmissions:

1. Lower maintenance costs

Automatic transmissions (too long; call ‘em autos) require regular servicing/fluid changes amounting to thousands of dollars over the life of the vehicle. Manuals require a simple oil change (even simpler than an engine oil change: no filter) and then only every 90,000 miles or so.
Although autos are much more reliable now, they will eventually fail and require huge bucks to repair/replace, while manuals will last a lifetime (and don’t talk to me about clutches: if any part does fail, repair is simple and cheap, but I don’t deal with that much as my Honda Accord has 162,000 miles on the original clutch…).

2. Safety

Before (and unless) cars had all these variable all-wheel drive whozits, the fact is that when your foot is off the throttle in an auto, you are coasting: another word for “out of control”. You have more control/grip in a manual, where at least some of the wheels are being “driven” unless the clutch pedal is depressed. This is most important in low-traction situations like rain, snow or ice. I remember vividly a strange night on the D.C. beltway: a freak sleet storm had iced up the portion of the highway passing over the Potomac, and the combination of slight turn with slight banking caused cars to slide off the low side and end up clumped together at the bottom of the curve. Dozens of cars with autos could not effectively maintain traction. I had a little 323 Mazda with a stick, and by leaving it in 3rd and creeping along at idle, I just motored on by.

3. Practicality

If an auto breaks, you all stuck. If a something breaks on a manual, you can often just keep going. I had a ’64 Chevy with a Muncey 4-speed that I use to deliver pizzas during my college days (!!!). One night (around 200,000 miles) the cast iron Z-bar link connecting the pedal to the clutch snapped in half. Even with no clutch, I completed the delivery and safely drove home. (BTW, repair was $20 to weld the link back together).
A more likely scenario is waking up to a dead battery. In an auto you’re stuck. With a manual, you can push/pull bump start the car and be on your way.

4. Mileage

Most cars will still get slightly better mileage with a manual. I routinely get better-than-quoted mileage with my manuals (but, in fairness, I usually get better mileage in my auto-equipped Odyssey too). And for your hypermilers (a new breed: you know who you are) “coasting” and other techniques are much safer and easier with a manual.

Finally (old-guy rant coming), we all drive because we have to: some of us also drive because it’s fun. If your idea of the ultimate car is your-favorite-couch-on-wheels, then stick (argh!) with an automatic. In a way, it’s about control: does the car drive you, or do you drive the car? For me, the joy is in choosing which gear ratio to use: just cruisin’, or tearing a new one as you rip around pretending the on-ramp is Turn One at Indy — it’s up to you!

Karl “three on the tree is not for me” Hovey

[EuphDad]

During the last gas crisis in 1980 I bought a standard. Never having driven a standard, I had the salesman give me a 15 minute lesson and off I went, bucking and stalling, but got home and after a few drives, got with the program OK.

I replaced that car with a few other standards, then moved on to automatics. The transmission in our Volvo allows for either manual or automatic shifting. I use the manual in bad icy weather to downshift and when I'm on the highway. I bought a Mini stick shift 3 years ago and absolutely love driving a stick again. Stop and go highway driving is the pits, but otherwise the stick shift and the Mini is just a blast. We don't have too many hills, so that is not part of my driving equation. Constant hills with a stick are not fun.

[Mark]

...and anyone who chose "automatic" in your poll either does not know how to shift, is a euphonium player, or BOTH.

I don't resemble that remark. Until I moved to Seattle, I always drove manual tranmission cars. After a few months of driving the hills in downtown I bought an automatic and have never looked back. The traffic signals in downtown Seattle are timed so that you always hit every red light and the grades on many of the hills approach 90 degrees. And, this goes on for block after block. Also, there is always an idiot behind you that pulls up to within two inches of your rear bumber while you are stopped at that red light on a 88 degree upslope.

[Uncle Buck]

I don't resemble that remark. Until I moved to Seattle, I always drove manual tranmission cars. After a few months of driving the hills in downtown I bought an automatic and have never looked back. The traffic signals in downtown Seattle are timed so that you always hit every red light and the grades on many of the hills approach 90 degrees. And, this goes on for block after block. Also, there is always an idiot behind you that pulls up to within two inches of your rear bumber while you are stopped at that red light on a 88 degree upslope.

And if you drift into the bay in a Volkswagon, you go straight to hell.

(Oh wait, that's San Francisco, not Seattle.)

[bearphonium]

I learned to drive on a '63 VW Beetle--very forgiving. I only owned manual transmission vehicles until 1997, when I bought the automatic transmission model of my (current) Ford Ranger PU.

Learning to drive in a manual teaches a lot about divided attention, and paying attention to the car while you're driving. I think that teaches you more about paying attention than an automatic tranny does, but that's only my opinion.

I had the experience (about 25 years ago) of being the only person working at the Stanford U catering department who could drive a manual, and ended up having to get a ride to the city to pick up the delivery truck that we rented for commencement. 22' delivery truck, coming back up 101 at 5 p.m. was interesting, to say the least.

Since I multi task a bunch when driving, I like the automatic tranny. Can't say I get in many traffic jams here in Eugene, but I still like the ease, although it could also be the power steering that I like.

And, having the manual tranny experience made learning how to ride a motorcycle a little easier a while back, although on a bike, it is advisable to downshift as you stop...DAMHIK.

Ally"who voted automatic but really likes both but not when driving about town"House

[Todd S. Malicoate]

I think you may have it backwards here. The “load” on the transmission you refer to, others would call “engine brake” and is a way to decrease stopping distance. This can be demonstrated in a manual by leaving the car in 1st from a stop, accelerating to about 30 mph and lifting your foot off the throttle: your body will lurch forward, as the car slows rapidly without even touching the brake.

Karl has it exactly right...pressing the clutch while braking does eliminate the braking that the motor does when you take your foot off the throttle. You should only use the clutch when you are shifting gears or just before coming to a complete stop (to keep the engine from stalling). Just remember the clutch pedal should be all the way down or all the way up...never "ridden" half-way. Sorry for the confusion...I was absolutely wrong on this point.

[Karl H.]

Karl has it exactly right...pressing the clutch while braking does eliminate the braking that the motor does when you take your foot off the throttle. You should only use the clutch when you are shifting gears or just before coming to a complete stop (to keep the engine from stalling). Just remember the clutch pedal should be all the way down or all the way up...never "ridden" half-way. Sorry for the confusion...I was absolutely wrong on this point.

Spoken like a gentleman!

Karl "Now, may I have a license for me pet fish, Eric?" Hovey

[windshieldbug]

Semi-automatic, on the wheel, where you pre-select the gear with one thumb and use the other thumb when you actually want the downshift. Upshifts are automatic, staying below the 19,000 RPM limit...

[Brassdad]

Yea! I broke the tie for manual! (FOR NOW)

My father taught me to drive on a manual 1969 Toyota Corolla in Hawaii.
Took me to Ford Island and drove on the airstrip until he was confident I could control the clutch and hold a steady track. Then took me on the street.
The real fun part was when he took me out at night on the hills of the windward side of the island to learn to shift with out looking (everything below dash board level was pitch black). Hand he was death on rolling back on a hill side stop.

What I best remember is when I took my first driving test, the cop and I walked over to the car. Upon looking inside he wrote on the clip board "Poor Clutch Control" - and I hadn't even put the key in the ignition.

My last manual transmission was in Okinawa with my Japanese model Toyota van, and my "imported" 1971 convertible super beetle.

[DonShirer]

I drove manuals all my life before getting a Prius three years ago, and guess that with average coordination you ought to be able to pick up the rudiments in a couple of days (perhaps a week to eliminate occasional gear clashes). My wife still uses her 5-speed Toyota pickup (she learned manual as a kid on a Jeep) but is driving the hybrid more and more often these days (for obvious reasons).

A word about engine braking. A garage mechanic once told me it wasn't a good idea at high speeds except in an emergency. "Which would you rather replace," he asked, "a set of brake shoes or a transmission?" At least with the Prius, I don't have to worry about that!

[Todd S. Malicoate]

Spoken like a gentleman!

Well, Karl...I do owe you one. After all, you loaned me a very nice horn to play on at the Navy Band audition back in 1995. Unfortunately, I couldn't center the low G on it for that Lincolnshire Posy excerpt.

Todd S. "who's just sorry he couldn't come through with said nice horn" Malicoate

[ken k]

so bloke, you had an SHO eh, awesome cars. Of course with $4 gas I wouldn't want to driving one now. I had the V8 SHO. that one had automatic. It got about 16 mpg so I traded it for an escort. Many people did not like that generation taurus, but I loved it. I had a taurus wagon too until the tranny took a dump. I always thought it would be cool to take the SHO engine and suspension and put it in the taurus wagon. I may do it yet, since these cars are dirt cheap now.

ken k

[Donn]

I'd even seriously consider an auto motorcycle. The previous owner of my old Moto Guzzi bought it to replace an automatic - Moto Guzzi made automatics for several years back then, called "Converts" for the torque converter they used. They're highly prized, to this day, and 20 years ago this guy wanted another one (old one burned up in a garage fire), but had to sell for standard. Standard is best out on the open road, but in town, in my opinion, it would be more fun not to have to deal with all the shifting. It doesn't keep my head in the game, it's just a distraction I don't need. And I don't really want a scooter.