Dillon, TE, and other non-comp euphs

[Alex F]

Has anyone played any of the non-compensating 3 + 1 euphs sold under the Dillon Music and Tuba Exchange labels by those dealers? I'm thinking these horns must be decent enough for these two sellers to put their names on them.

A local mom has asked my advice on behalf of her son. I'm thinking 3 + 1 because the kid is pretty good and a pro euph may needed in a few years. The $$ they have right now won't buy them a horn that expensive anyway.

[sungfw]

Unless things have changed in the last month or so, the TE non-comp is a 4-inline, not a 3+1.

There are several threads on the TE non-comp from Dave Werden's site. Here's a couple to get you started:
http://www.dwerden.com/talk/forum/messa ... 20exchange

http://www.dwerden.com/talk/forum/messa ... ight_key=y

I live about 15 min from TE, and have spent time playing about a dozen different horns over the past year. Recent horns are significantly better in terms of quality, intonation, and playability than they were 2-3 years ago. IMO, current models compare favorably to my Besson Sov in tone color and sound. With the exception of one shipment, fit and finish have been very good to excellent, and intonation has been on par with the Yamaha 321 and King 2280. Also, unlike the 321, the TE is large shank. If I were in the market for a step-up horn for a middle/high school student and was not overly concerned with resale value, the TE would definitely be on my short list. (If resale value were a consideration , I would probably go with a Besson 1065, which can be had for ~$1500.)

That said, my primary concerns with Chinese- (and Indian-) made horns at this point are getting replacement parts and repairs. I very briefly considered buying a vendor-branded Chinese-made euph at USABTEC earlier this year, until I spoke to the vendor's repair person about replacement parts: his answer was that they're keeping one horn aside to cannibalize for spare parts as the need arises. To me, that begs the question of whether even THEY can get spare parts for "their" horns. (This may be less of a concern with TE, which provides a parts list on its website.) And a number of reputable instrument repair techs I've queried have said, flat out, that, at this point, they will not repair Chinese-made horns owing to the poor quality of materials (though one has since backed off from that stance.)

[Disclosure: the opinion above is mine alone. YMMLWV. Neither I nor anyone in my immediate or extended family are employed by or related to anyone employed by TE. I receive no compensation other consideration from TE for voicing my opinion.]

[sungfw]

One more thing: can't speak for the Dillon non-comp, but the satin silver comp euph they had at USABTEC was noticably lighter in weight than any of the other comp euphs I tried, which suggests it's made from fairly light gauge metal. If that's the case with the non-comp as well, it could be something of a dent magnet.

[euphdude]

Has anyone played any of the non-compensating 3 + 1 euphs sold under the Dillon Music and Tuba Exchange labels by those dealers?

I played the Dillon 3+1 horn at the Army conference this past year. It appeared identical to a horn I purchased on ebay a couple of years ago. It played about the same as my horn...I wouldn't trade a Willson, Sterling, or a Prestige for one of these, but they are not bad horns...worth about what you pay for them. The 3+1 setup is standard, however, the fourth valve is located on the front of the main branch instead of behind it...for shorter armed folks this is no doubt a plus, but I have fairly long arms, so I found it more awkward. In terms of playability, it is decent overall, with the exception of a very flat 5th partial. The valves are fast, if just a tad clunky. The tone is dark, rich, and it centers very nicely.

That said, my primary concerns with Chinese- (and Indian-) made horns at this point are getting replacement parts and repairs.

I've had one valve guide go out on me since I've had the horn. It was replaced with a Yamaha guide...although the stock Yamaha guide was a little long for ths instrument and had to be sawed off just a hair to fit properly. The replacement has been fine. My repairman thought the felts looked to be of similar size as YEP-321 felts and I agree.

[iiipopes]

In addition to the above models, also look at a Jupiter Tribune upright 4-valve non-comp. A friend of mine who is a comeback player is getting excellent results out of one of these with a Schilke 50 mouthpiece. Since Jupiter is becoming an established brand, roughly where Yamaha was about 30 years ago, quality control is up, dealer support is up, and for a starter euph it is a great value, and as a mid-line euph it competes well. Of course, being a 4-valve up, he may or may not like that particular valve arrangement, but there should be no trouble selling it to the next up and coming euph player when he has progressed to the point of getting a new Besson Prestige.

[Alex C]

I remain a fan of the Tuba Exchange non-compensating euphonium and have made several posts to that effect. A good choice.

However, the Nirschl non-compensating euphonium is also a terrific horn and, in my opinion, sounds as good as many of the upperline compensating horns. I am totally impressed with the sound and the playing characteristics and, yes, I bought and use one.

There may be some confusion because (as with many things connected with Nirschl) the business relationship between Nirschl and Gemstone (Gemeinhardt) changed. Dillon is, of course selling the German made horns but Gemstone is still selling the Nirsch designed non-compensating horn made in Asia. These are well made instruments.

If you want to find out about parts, ask the seller if you can buy an extra set of valve caps with the horn. If they can't provide them your repairman probably can't get parts. A good repairman can get parts, or make parts, for most horns. But... they don't want to work on horns they don't sell, which is understandable. Get used to it though, more instruments are going to be produced in China and India until it's the norm.

The difference between these horns? The TE euph plays easier than any horn I've tried. The Nirschl sounds like a more expensive euph and plays sweet, too.

Anyway, for the price, the Nirschl is a lot of horn. Try one and see.

[mclaugh]

[quote="Alex C"There may be some confusion because (as with many things connected with Nirschl) the business relationship between Nirschl and Gemstone (Gemeinhardt) changed. Dillon is, of course selling the German made horns but Gemstone is still selling the Nirsch designed non-compensating horn made in Asia.[/quote]

And then there's a certain relative of Uncle Wally who shall remain nameless who's claiming that the Asian-made horns Gemstone is selling are being sold illegally, which is really interesting, since the exclusive dealer for the German-made horns in the US is selling the Asian-made horns as well.

[Tom Gregory]

I have owned one of the non-comps from TE for about a year. I recommend it highly. The intonation is good (just a "slightly" high low Bb). I don't think the construction is light compared to one of my student's school-owned Willson non-comp. My quintet prefers it on some lighter stuff, and works pretty well at that. Getting parts from TE...no problem. They sent me an extra set of valve guides free of charge.

Down sides: the case looks better than it is. It's made of cloth covered hard styro- foam. The seams are starting to unravel. It does come with a styrofoam bell mute to protect the instrument, very nice. I'm not thrilled with the threading on the valve caps. I find them difficult to start, at times, and that's a little inconvenient on the fly. I don't think it's a problem if handled with care. The one I have is laquered. This could be better as I am starting to notice spots where it's starting to wear.

I do not believe any of the downsides I mention make it an undesirable instrument. It's good for under $1,000. You can get a euphonium and a tank of gas (at least half).
TG

[Davidus1]

What size mouthpiece shank is the Jupiter 470?? Is it small, medium or large? Thanks. Dave

[iiipopes]

What size mouthpiece shank is the Jupiter 470?? Is it small, medium or large? Thanks. Dave

Most, if not all Jupiters, including the 470, take the small tenor trombone sized shank.

That's how my friend got the Schilke 50. I first bought it for my H N White era King 3B to do some midsection work. That ended, and so having a funnel cup I offered it to him to try. Great combination, especially for section work in a standard or symphonic mixed concert band.

[Lee Stofer]

If you look at Kanstul's web site, you'll see that they have both a 4-in-line non-comp euphonium that is similar in design to the YEP-321, and a 3+1 non-comp euphonium, as well as the full compensating 3+1 euphonium.

What I like about their line of instruments are 1) they all have the large-shank receiver, 2) they all have the large-diameter bell, 3) they are all hand-made in the US, with readily-available parts. So, their non-comp 3+1 euphonium has the same leadpipe, bore, and bell as their compensating model, but weighs quite a bit less and costs quite a bit less. I think it is a bargain for students, and for tubists who want a quality horn for doubling but can't afford an expensive compensating model. My oldest daughter, who is a low brass player, preferred the non-comp 3+1 because of the lighter weight. And, she preferred the 3+1 over the 4-in-line, because the 3+1 has a larger-bore 4th valve, due to it's placement.

Dad likes the fact that it came with a really sturdy wood-shell hard case, and I'm not likely to have to do much dent work on it for her!