What do yall consider typical problem notes on F tuba

[djwesp]

http://www.dwerden.com/SoundFiles/Inton ... ersion.pdf" target="_blank

[pierso20]

interesting. Good site, lot's of information. Don't forget that the F tuba though is a special little animal....

[pierso20]

Im just saying my 2nd space C and 2nd line Bb are really out when the rest of the horn is really well in tune and didnt know if this is what yall call the problem tuning notes

Mostly when I talk to people about F tuba's, we speak about "problem notes" referring to the C below the staff. This note is difficult to play in general on a lot of F tuba's. But I don't really talk about "problem tuning" because F tuba's...are...well, more difficult with intonation that our CC friends.

Anyway, many F tuba's I've played have sorta wild intonation and vary horn to horn. My particular horn has a SPOT ON Bb (2nd line) but a really sharp C (2nd space). Regardless if it's a "problem" tuning note or not, if it's a problem on your horn, then it's a problem. You should be able to Lip the sucker pretty easily. Just practice it a lot so you know what the in-tune C and Bb feels like. Though, if they are both out, experiment with the first valve slide for the Bb (if you can reach it easily, maybe pull for it); you can always try a different mouthpiece too.

On my Cerveny, the best sound I get is on a Pt-65 but it makes intonation more of a struggle. Though, because I like the sound I can deal with it. However, I have a Helleberg 7B and it makes EVERYTHING very close to in tune. Just a thought.

Brooke "who believes problem notes are only a real problem if they can't be taken care of" Pierson

[eupher61]

I know I hit it really lucky with my B&S (PT-10, maybe?? I don't remember anymore) I pull the first slide for 12 combos, except any D, and pitch is pretty much dead on all 'round.

[Todd S. Malicoate]

When I was beginning my masters degree at Kansas, I started learning F on the school's B&S...an older horn that had the, what I would call, typical "F" quirks. Terrible low range...just awful. And in the staff, I had to play the second space C 4th valve and the B right below it 2-4 to have a chance at being in tune (I'm not sure why you left the B out, James...surely if open C is out of tune the B must be, as well).

In a couple of months as I gained experience on F and started playing it exclusively in the symphonic band, my friend Jarrod (great guy, now with the US Naval Academy Band) let me play on his Yamaha. Absolutely different animal! No "problem" notes, and an incredible low range that was diametrically opposite of the German horn. Even "The Ride" popped out on the Yamaha...what a joy to play!

Point being, any discussion of the "general" F problems may or may not apply to your horn. You must learn to solve the problems and sound great on whatever you have!

Bloke, did you leave that B&S tuba at KU when you left?

[DaTubaKid]

FWIW, I played on a school Rudy F for a while whose Bb and C in the staff were horribly sharp. Using 4+5 and 4 made it a little better, but I never put the effort in to ingrain those fingerings on those notes. I know a guy whose Alex F has a really sharp Bb. For a while he took to pull out on the first valve slide, then got used to just blowing it in tune, but I think he does a little of both now. My PT-16 is fine on those notes, so it just depends on the horn.

[pierso20]

but I think he does a little of both now

I definitely think that is the way to go with any horn. If it's a large leap of adjustment you can't make the slide do all the work. Using some slide and some lips is more efficient than using a lot of one. It also helps preserve the sort of sound you want on the trouble notes.

[pierso20]

James, the "problem register" that you keep hearing us chat about is usually an issue only on rotary F tubas. This is the low C, B and Bb, generally speaking. There is no other "typical" F tuba problem, each model being pretty different from one another.

But nearly ALL rotary Fs and some of the newer pistons ones (45S-LP for example) have stinky (or at least odd) low Cs and such. Most piston Fs do not have this problem but oft times lack the tonal qualities that many rotary Fs have that make us want to cope with those Low Cs.

That is what is usually being referred to when typical F tuba quirks are being discussed; not really pitch issues, but response.

Wade

yeah...I tried to say what you just said...and somehow I couldn't quite get it out as well and blunt as you did.

[Alex C]

Im just saying my 2nd space C and 2nd line Bb are really out when the rest of the horn is really well in tune and didnt know if this is what yall call the problem tuning notes

That is the equivalent of having 3rd partial F and G on a CC tuba (or Eb and F on a BBb tuba) as sharp notes. That really should not be an issue although I've played European F tubas with that tendency and worse.

All of the alternate fingerings I can think of at the moment make those notes sharper! If you have an error of 15 cents or so, you should be able to control the pitch with practice and bring it down but if it's more than that, you have a handful of work ahead of you.

The problem tuning notes should be the same partials as other brass instruments, flat fifth partial, sharp sixth, very flat seventh, etc. Anything other than that would be an abberation caused by the whim of the tuba manufacturing gods.

[pierso20]

Blunt?

poor choice of word by me? Yes...

[MaryAnn]

Actually, if I read correctly what the OP said, he has nailed what I think the "real problem" is with rotary F tubas. C and thereabouts slot pretty well if you're willing to play them a quarter tone sharp. It's only trying to make them play in tune, that makes them difficult, because that isn't where the tuba wants to play them. One friend of mine has lengthened his tuning slide by an appreciable amount and says that helps with the problem notes a lot. I'd be more likely to put on a gonga main slide kicker and try that, assuming there is main slide length available. Remembering that slide pulling is not for intonation but for centering.

MA

[pierso20]

The thing is, as stated earlier, many of us really like the rotary F sound which is why we are so willing to put up with this. But spot on, it's really only a few notes, usually that low C that needs to be altered to play well. Though, as said, this differs between horns.

[pierso20]

Wade, my problem note, the worst one on my 180 is the low BBb in response (the one octave above is just sharp), I finger it 235, and just cant get it, the C is "fine" and can get a bite, same with the low A .....

235?

I finger my low Bb 4 5 and sometimes will whip out 1-4 if I need to.....235?