Fountains of Rome

[TUBAMUSICIAN87]

So today I was doing some research on the excerpt for the Fountains of Rome and I was looking for different interpretations from different orchestras on youtube (I also looked at the Classical music Library and Naxos) and I stumbled upon this...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=UlxaaGgctN4" target="_blank" target="_blank

This might have already been posted in the media forum already and the reason I didnt put this post there is because I have a question about this video. At ~30-31 seconds in the rhythm played does not match up to the excerpt that I have, and in one of the posts someone mentions this very change in rhythm. I was wondering if anyone might have a little insight on the matter.

P.S.- Check out some of there other performances. This group is AWSOME

[The Jackson]

Gene Pokorny talks about that rhythm change on his Orchestral Excerpts CDs. He says it makes more musical sense that way. I've played this excerpt in front of some big-time tuba men, and none of them have made mention of it.

I don't hear this change in recordings (including the Naxos one, which I really enjoy), so I haven't really given it another thought.

[Todd S. Malicoate]

I don't hear the change you're referring to...that bar is written two eighths, eighth-note triplet, four sixteenths...exactly what I hear on the recording. The tuba just doesn't have the second sixteenth note of beat 3. I don't really hear anything on beat three from the tuba...does he change the octave somewhere, or breathe on that beat? Is it just the tuba part that was changed, and if so, in what way?

To me, the hardest part of this excerpt has always been the jump from the last two sixteenths to the low E on the downbeat...I've diddled around with playing all four sixteenths down to the low E, doubling the bass trombone in octaves all the way down. I like it better that way, and I think it fits the rest of the score better that way...I just don't have the balls to try it in an audition.

Great playing, in any case...very well done. I just don't hear the rhythmic change.

[Todd S. Malicoate]

Well, I did say...

I just don't have the balls to try it in an audition.

I agree one would be ill-advised to play anything but the ink on this excerpt in a professional audition, in which this excerpt would inevitably be called. Up until yesterday, I would have thought it best to play the ink on every excerpt...except for Fantastique, which is expected to be played up an octave, which is actually much easier, and...how is it you learn these things, again?

I don't have Mr. Pokorny's fine CD...anybody want to fill me in on what the mysterious change is? And, if you please, whether this change should be implemented in a professional audition situation?

Really, I just have a hard time making the two sixteenths speak...it's much easier to continue "the lick" down to low E with the bass trombone!

[The Jackson]

Todd, the change he mentions is basically what you said. It's continuing the lick downward in 16th notes (that's what I hear).


And I also am having lots of trouble making those low E's speak

[Todd S. Malicoate]

And I also am having lots of trouble making those low E's speak

I don't have trouble making the low E's speak...that would be a very large problem to have when trying to play this excerpt. I have a hard time making the last two sixteenths of the bar in question (A and F) speak and sound like pitches instead of just double-tongue.

I've listened with my ear to the speaker...I still don't hear the tuba going down to the low E...I hear tons of bass trombone (nicely done, as well). No big deal, it's probably just me.

BTW, the parts for this are on IMSLP. Look at the Bassoon I part, and imagine it down an octave. Look at the composer's own piano 4-hand version...you'll see what he intended.

[The Jackson]

Whoops, I misread your post. Sorry about that!

Looking at these other parts, the tuba really does have something strange. I think the rest of the writing shows that the composer knew that the instrument could "handle" those kinds of fast licks, but did not put that in...

[Todd S. Malicoate]

Thanks, Wade...excellent Finale work, as always.

Yep...example 3 is what I was talking about, and would appear to be the "Pokorny variation." If you want a scholarly justification for playing example 3, just look at the composer's own 4-hand piano version of the work...you can see what he wanted.

I've never played this piece in real life...do the string basses play the sixteenths down to their low E string? I don't have a score and the string parts aren't on IMSLP.

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