Is there much difference sound wise between these two horns? I've played on a 25J before (and used to own a 20J) so I'm familiar with it's abilities and drawbacks. I haven't had a chance to blow on 34J orchestra grand though.
The 34J for sale on this board has a .810 bore, but all the other 34J's I've seen have the .773 bore, which is the same bore as the 25J.
You can find 25J's for around 2500, but the 34J's are always in the 5000 or more range. The big difference is the top vs. front valve, but is there anything else?
What accounts for the price discrepancy? Valve location? Fixed bell? Scarcity? Sound?
Conn25J vs. Conn 34J
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Cowgo
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jeopardymaster
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Re: Conn25J vs. Conn 34J
A few observations:
I believe there are a lot more playable copies of the 24/25J relative to the 34J, because production runs were much bigger and much later in time. Conn Loyalist - can you bear me out?
I doubt whether the 34J for sale right now is typical. The owner himself suggests it was a custom job. That .810 number sounds high to me - I thought .750 was just about as big as the piston design can ergonomically tolerate. Otherwise the stroke is too long. But the number could be accurate - and I may be totally off-base.
24/25Js have those short-action valves. I personally don't mind them one bit from a playing standpoint, but having the pipes out of round at the valve ports does affect response, in my opinion. Are they less freeblowing as a result? Yeah, a bit. Stuffy? Not to me.
I believe there are a lot more playable copies of the 24/25J relative to the 34J, because production runs were much bigger and much later in time. Conn Loyalist - can you bear me out?
I doubt whether the 34J for sale right now is typical. The owner himself suggests it was a custom job. That .810 number sounds high to me - I thought .750 was just about as big as the piston design can ergonomically tolerate. Otherwise the stroke is too long. But the number could be accurate - and I may be totally off-base.
24/25Js have those short-action valves. I personally don't mind them one bit from a playing standpoint, but having the pipes out of round at the valve ports does affect response, in my opinion. Are they less freeblowing as a result? Yeah, a bit. Stuffy? Not to me.
Gnagey CC, VMI Neptune 4098 CC, Mirafone 184-5U CC and 56 Bb, Besson 983 EEb and euphonium, King marching baritone, Alexander 163 BBb, Conn 71H/112H bass trombone, Olds Recording tenor trombone.
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imperialbari
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Re: Conn25J vs. Conn 34J
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Rick Denney
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Re: Conn25J vs. Conn 34J
I suspect examples vary, mostly because of age and modifications that have been made throughout their necessarily long lives.
I played one that I was not at all impressed by, either in terms of response, sound, or intonation. It was not as good as my 20J had been, and that 20J was not the best example of that model I have played.
I also note that of the old American tubas that are popular as carcasses for conversion for modern orchestral use, the big Conns never seem to be present. I see Yorks, Holtons, Martins, and various even older models such as the occasional Keefer and Lyon & Healy. But, considering the number of 36J Orchestra Grand Bass Conns that were likely produced, I don't see them go by very often.
And then there is the reporting of Donald Stauffer, who reports in his book that he started his career using a Conn Orchestra Grand Bass back in the 40's, and that he was forced to add a tuning stick after his intonation attracted negative comments from a conductor. He was a later proponent of big Martins when he was director of the Navy Band.
These facts together suggest to me that were I considering one of these instruments, a play test would be a necessary element in the process, especially if I bring a high level of expectation to the acquisition. I suspect that they can be great instruments, but I know that the bad ones can be bad indeed.
Rick "who has never heard of a Conn piston tuba with .810 valves" Denney
I played one that I was not at all impressed by, either in terms of response, sound, or intonation. It was not as good as my 20J had been, and that 20J was not the best example of that model I have played.
I also note that of the old American tubas that are popular as carcasses for conversion for modern orchestral use, the big Conns never seem to be present. I see Yorks, Holtons, Martins, and various even older models such as the occasional Keefer and Lyon & Healy. But, considering the number of 36J Orchestra Grand Bass Conns that were likely produced, I don't see them go by very often.
And then there is the reporting of Donald Stauffer, who reports in his book that he started his career using a Conn Orchestra Grand Bass back in the 40's, and that he was forced to add a tuning stick after his intonation attracted negative comments from a conductor. He was a later proponent of big Martins when he was director of the Navy Band.
These facts together suggest to me that were I considering one of these instruments, a play test would be a necessary element in the process, especially if I bring a high level of expectation to the acquisition. I suspect that they can be great instruments, but I know that the bad ones can be bad indeed.
Rick "who has never heard of a Conn piston tuba with .810 valves" Denney
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iiipopes
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Re: Conn25J vs. Conn 34J
Hmm. I'm wondering if the .810 is an o.d. measurement, not an i.d. measurement?
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Rick Denney
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Re: Conn25J vs. Conn 34J
Or maybe the ID of the tuning slide's outer sleeve after the slide is removed?iiipopes wrote:Hmm. I'm wondering if the .810 is an o.d. measurement, not an i.d. measurement?
The .030 wall thickness sounds about right, I suppose.
Rick "noting that a couple of manufacturers also measure this way just to annoy me" Denney