Olympic Star Spangled Banner

[Dean]

It is well known that Chinese state-sponsored theft of intellectual property happens all the time, and in all areas of industry.


This would be a small drop in a large bucket.

It seems really pathetic now, especially with the immense trade imbalance. It SHOULD be a large issue with our politicians... wonder why it's not??

[TMurphy]

I really like the anthem they've been using. It's different, sure, but I like it. More moving, in my opinion, than the typical rah-rah pump-em-up version you normally hear.

And, of course, eons better than any lame pop singer belting it out in the wrong damn time signature. (Seriously...next time you hear one of those pop stars singing it, try conducting along. I can just about guarantee, they will be singing in 4/4 time.)

[eupher61]

My favorite version is from 1880, the "Stratton" arrangement. This is pre-National Anthem status, and the tune is handled like its original....a drinking song, waltz feel. Clips along in march tempo (roughly 108, I'd say) no ritard at the end, just an ornamented fermata on "wave", drums playing waltz feel. Very cool.

[Mark]

Just a little clarification on some points....

Micky Wrobleski

This is why I like TubeNet and what makes it so valuable. Thank you Micky.

BTW, did you play Bydlo on the BSO recording of Pictures? If so, what instrument did you use?

[Wyvern]

This is why I like TubeNet and what makes it so valuable. Thank you Micky.

Quite so!

I sometimes get a bit disillusioned about TubeNet, but when enlightening posts like that one by Micky appear, I know why I keep coming back

[Rick F]

Micky Wrobleski,

Yes, thanks for posting all that information. Every once in awhile this forum is really worth the a visit.

[Dean E]

Clearly copied from Mr. Breiner's version, but I have to wonder what kind of recourse he has. He can hardly bring Chinese officials here to be sued.

Right, but the broadcasters of the infringing arrangements are already here in the U.S.

[Todd S. Malicoate]

Clearly copied from Mr. Breiner's version, but I have to wonder what kind of recourse he has. He can hardly bring Chinese officials here to be sued.

Right, but the broadcasters of the infringing arrangements are already here in the U.S.

Isn't that somewhat like blaming the pilot of the helicopter who videotaped those policemen beating up Rodney King? NBC is merely showing the Olympics and has no control over what is piped over the loudspeakers.

[tofu]

--

[Todd S. Malicoate]

NBC has done a very poor job of broadcasting. Limited live broadcasts, concentrating on just a few sports and having really given the Chinese a pass on any kind of critical review of things such as the murder of that American or the obvious flaunting of age requirements etc. and the joke of having places for folks to protest and then dening permits for folks to protest.

I respectfully disagree...the age question of the Chinese gymnasts has been all over the place...what more could you possibly want? The murder of the American was obviously the action of one crazy man who killed himself immediately...how are "the Chinese" responsible for that in any way? Surely you don't think a communist government will allow open protests on their soil? What kind of "permit" could the protesters possibly get from an oppressive government?

If the Chinese refused to pull the ripped off arrangements then NBC should simply show the ceremony with no sound, but a caption saying not being shown with sound due to Chinese copyright infringements. Bet that would get their attention since this is the Olympics for China to show the world what a good world citizen they are.

Yes, but the copyright infringement is only alleged...you can't expect NBC to act on something like that until it is proven, can you? The national anthem situation is unfortunate, but I would prefer decisions of that scope made by judges, not broadcast executives.

And I doubt the Chinese would blink an eye if NBC did "mute the sound." The only people harmed would be the athletes who just won and the folks back home watching them...it would be senseless at this point to deny them their precious moment.

This Olympics is serving it's purpose for China...to show how superior they are in sports. The gold medal standings you see have been carefully planned for ever since Beijing was announced as the site of the 2008 games.

‘All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing’

I couldn't agree with you more...I just don't think the "thing" you think good men should do would be particularly effective against this particular evil.

[k001k47]

NBC has done a very poor job of broadcasting. Limited live broadcasts, concentrating on just a few sports and having really given the Chinese a pass on any kind of critical review of things such as the murder of that American or the obvious flaunting of age requirements etc. and the joke of having places for folks to protest and then dening permits for folks to protest.

I respectfully disagree...the age question of the Chinese gymnasts has been all over the place...what more could you possibly want? The murder of the American was obviously the action of one crazy man who killed himself immediately...how are "the Chinese" responsible for that in any way? Surely you don't think a communist government will allow open protests on their soil? What kind of "permit" could the protesters possibly get from an oppressive government?

If the Chinese refused to pull the ripped off arrangements then NBC should simply show the ceremony with no sound, but a caption saying not being shown with sound due to Chinese copyright infringements. Bet that would get their attention since this is the Olympics for China to show the world what a good world citizen they are.

Yes, but the copyright infringement is only alleged...you can't expect NBC to act on something like that until it is proven, can you? The national anthem situation is unfortunate, but I would prefer decisions of that scope made by judges, not broadcast executives.

And I doubt the Chinese would blink an eye if NBC did "mute the sound." The only people harmed would be the athletes who just won and the folks back home watching them...it would be senseless at this point to deny them their precious moment.

This Olympics is serving it's purpose for China...to show how superior they are in sports. The gold medal standings you see have been carefully planned for ever since Beijing was announced as the site of the 2008 games.

‘All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing’

I couldn't agree with you more...I just don't think the "thing" you think good men should do would be particularly effective against this particular evil.

ANYWHO

...how 'bout that Star Spangled Banner arrangement?

[TubaRay]

ANYWHO

...how 'bout that Star Spangled Banner arrangement?

Yeah! How 'bout that Star Spangled Banner arrangement?

[rocksanddirt]

interesting discussion.

I rarely like the arragements or preformance of national anthems at the olympics. The US or anyone elses.

For the US, my preference is for the waltzy drinking song feel with limited harmonizations, but strong counterpoint and moving bass lines. For most others....easy on the syrup, they are sweet enough.

[TubaCoopa]

I think, like rocksanddirt, that the anthem should be somewhat simple, but with a moving bass line, and good counterpoint.

*edit* Why didn't I just quote and comment? Oh well...

[Rick Denney]

Were we to come up with an arrangement to please everyone, it would be a drinking song in a waltz feel with no ritard at the end that is played fast, but intended to reflect seriousness and present some unusual harmonies without offending people who want to hear it just the way a marching band would play it at a football game and to move people, particularly world-class athletes who have cameras shoved up their noses, to tears. Oh, and it would have to "feel right" to the U.S. embassy, which, of course, is staffed with musicians (not), assuming that even if it really was, they would really know what people want to hear.

Don't hire a cat to do a dog's job. If you bring in a symphony orchestra, you will get strings. If you ask the opinion of a diplomat, the default answer will always be to add more pomp and stateliness--that's the way diplomats think.

I had no issue with the arrangement, because whatever preferences I have don't really count. There's no pleasing everyone. This was, at least, very competently performed, and that is usually not the case at those football games. And I really enjoyed hearing great tuba playing--the tuba part in much of the closing ceremony music just plain kicked ***.

Whether they infringe on whosit's copyrights--how many different arrangements can there be of one tune? I suspect a very difficult job of proving infringement, even if the case can be brought to court. I can hum the tuba part to one of several different arrangements I've played, and I have no idea who I should send royalties to. But I know that those tuba parts aren't part of the original tune.

Personally, I think national anthems and arrangements that don't vary from the tune (with such things as variations, etc.) should, by law, be in the public domain, and anyone paid to make a new arrangement should agree to that beforehand. Nobody should EVER have to worry about copyright infringement when playing a national anthem.

But I have some really important questions to ask about the Olympics:

1. Why can't someone tell the mayor of London to buy a decent suit, and button is flappy suit coat when vertical? One expects a little more sartorial awareness from a guy who doesn't have to book a flight to shop at Savile Row. He must be Labour. (That will get me in trouble.)

2. Why can't our athletes come up with a consistent (and correct) way to display themselves during the national anthem? Is it hand over the heart? Do we sing? Didn't they circulate a memo?

3. I had to laugh when Bob Costas talked about the million "volunteers" in China. I'm sure they would have been willing and proud to volunteer, at least most of them. But I doubt they were given the choice. "You will volunteer to..." The Pyramids are no less impressive for having been built by slaves.

4. Is there anyone in the world more gracious than the (Kiwi) coach of the U.S. men's volleyball team? I think he impressed me more than any other single individual at the Olympics.

5. My prayers go to the British, who do not have what amounts to forced labor to build a show that will impress the world (or the $40B that the Chinese reportedly spent). They will have to endure grossly unrealistic comparisons.

Rick "who has played some mighty strange Banner arrangements" Denney

[The Impaler]

The United States Code, a permanent book of U.S. laws effective as of Jan. 3, 2006, is very specific about what to do during the Pledge of Allegiance and the playing of the national anthem.
Title 4, Chapter 1, Section 4 of the code:
"The Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag -- should be rendered by standing at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart. When not in uniform men should remove any nonreligious headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart. Persons in uniform should remain silent, face the flag, and render the military salute."
Title 36, Subtitle I, Chapter 3:
"During a rendition of the national anthem, when the flag is displayed, all present except those in uniform should stand at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart; men not in uniform should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold the headdress at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart; and individuals in uniform should give the military salute at the first note of the anthem and maintain that position until the last note; and when the flag is not displayed, all present should face toward the music and act in the same manner they would if the flag were displayed."

This is news to me, as I was taught that while hand-over-heart was appropriate for the pledge, it wasn't for the banner. Of course, I was taught that (way before 2006) in the early 80's in Anchorage where we also said the Canadian pledge every morning. Still haven't figured that one out.....

P.S. The Olympic arrangement grew on me throughout the ceremonies, and I actually kind of came to enjoy it by the last day or so.

[MaryAnn]

My reaction on hearing that anthem rendition for the first US gold medal was 1) oops, technical glitch! what with the starting over and leaving off the end (timed playback, win or lose) and 2) ohmygosh there are *wrong* notes in the accompaniment....whose crazya$$ arrangement is this anyway, and how did it get approved to play at the Olympics? To be truthful, I decided it must be a "Chinese committee arrangement." (There was a point in time when symphonies were composed by committees, in China.)

M "everyone has an opinion" A

[sinfonian]

All of these national anthem at the Olympics issues could be address with one simple change. Add a marching band competition to the Olympics. Each country that enters a MB could have their band record their anthem for use at venues where the band wasn't there. When the band wasn't in competition they could be broken down to smaller ensembles (quintets etc) that could go to the different venues to play the anthem live it their country was a gold medal while they were there. Obviously there would be a lot of work to set this up but would make for a great Olympics. Countries that didn't send a band could pick another band to record their national anthem for them.

[rocksanddirt]

All of these national anthem at the Olympics issues could be address with one simple change. Add a marching band competition to the Olympics. Each country that enters a MB could have their band record their anthem for use at venues where the band wasn't there. When the band wasn't in competition they could be broken down to smaller ensembles (quintets etc) that could go to the different venues to play the anthem live it their country was a gold medal while they were there. Obviously there would be a lot of work to set this up but would make for a great Olympics. Countries that didn't send a band could pick another band to record their national anthem for them.

Mother of god, what a great idea!

I'm sure the IOC would never go for it....but as an adjunct competition? I know that they often have juried art competitions around olympics, maybe that would be a way to go....?

[Mark]

Add a marching band competition to the Olympics.

Considering some of the other "sports" in the Olympics marching band seems reasonable to me. I just wonder if the marching band community can raise enough money to "convince" the Olympic Committee to add marching band.