HELP! Vaughan Williams Tuba Concerto

[sloan]

it is obvious to me that the professor assigning this piece to me (not a tuba player) has not analyzed this piece before.

Famous Last Words.

[Uncle Buck]

Good luck finding a way in your style guide to give proper attribution to this forum's contributions when you turn in your homework. I'd be curious to see how your footnotes end up looking.

[TubaRay]

Good luck finding a way in your style guide to give proper attribution to this forum's contributions when you turn in your homework. I'd be curious to see how your footnotes end up looking.

Help from Tubenet? What help from Tubenet? He read what we had to say and decided we didn't know what we were talking about.

[bill]

Don't know if it helps but the word has been around for years that this was written, originally, for Harmonica. May explain the "peculiar" form somewhat?

[Rick Denney]

I didn't think a simple question was going to warrant such hostility.

"Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!"

By the way, requests for help with homework assignments used to be specifically prohibited by the site owner, and a lot of people date from those times. The reasons are two: 1.) You can't tell who on Tubenet is an authority and who is full of b.s., 2.) Tubenet posts don't come with the required references for doing proper homework, and 3.) Tubenet is not a service or salvation for folks who waited until the last minute.

That said, remember that Vaughan Williams adopted the modal harmonies of folk song even in his stuff that is not based on folk song. He thought the major and minor modes were a little too related to the German tradition and abandoned the other church modes used by real people when singing their native songs, and by the great English Renaissance composers who were sensitive to those more varied church modes. Don't expect Vaughan Williams to fit in any normal sonata-form analysis that is based on major and minor modes.

Rick "thinking the Concerto must be viewed in the context of RVW's whole output, and not as most tuba players seem to view it" Denney

[bigboymusic]

The reasons are two: 1.) You can't tell who on Tubenet is an authority and who is full of b.s., 2.) Tubenet posts don't come with the required references for doing proper homework, and 3.) Tubenet is not a service or salvation for folks who waited until the last minute.

Two Rick?

[sloan]

The reasons are two: 1.) You can't tell who on Tubenet is an authority and who is full of b.s., 2.) Tubenet posts don't come with the required references for doing proper homework, and 3.) Tubenet is not a service or salvation for folks who waited until the last minute.

Two Rick?

There are 11 kinds of people in the world: those who can count in binary, and those who can't.

[Rick Denney]

The reasons are two: 1.) You can't tell who on Tubenet is an authority and who is full of b.s., 2.) Tubenet posts don't come with the required references for doing proper homework, and 3.) Tubenet is not a service or salvation for folks who waited until the last minute.

Two Rick?

"Our two weapons are fear, surprise, ruthless efficiency--Our THREE weapons are fear, surprise, ruthless efficiency, an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope--our FOUR weapons are fear, surprise, ruthless efficiency, an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope, and nice red uniforms--I'll come in again."

Rick "'I didn't expect a sort of Spanish Inquisition'" Denney

[TubaRay]

I didn't think a simple question was going to warrant such hostility.

I have re-read this entire thread and I have been unable to find where there was any hostility. Where did you find it?

[sloan]

I didn't think a simple question was going to warrant such hostility.

I have re-read this entire thread and I have been unable to find where there was any hostility. Where did you find it?

Perhaps he is introspecting?

[MaryAnn]

It was something of a light bulb for me when I realized that composers are unlikely to use theory when they write (although they do use form, often one of their own making/modifying.) Theory is for after-the-fact analyisis, and frankly I have never seen the use for it. It's not like the composer thought "Oh, I think I'll put in a passing tone here!" What probably occurred was "I like the way this sounds so I think I'll use it."

M "I suspect jazz improv is different" A

[porkchopsisgood]

Use Macro Analysis.

Probably the easiest way to show key relationships, and doesn't require you to go into ridiculous minutia using traditional harmonic analysis.

[lgb&dtuba]

It was something of a light bulb for me when I realized that composers are unlikely to use theory when they write (although they do use form, often one of their own making/modifying.) Theory is for after-the-fact analyisis, and frankly I have never seen the use for it. It's not like the composer thought "Oh, I think I'll put in a passing tone here!" What probably occurred was "I like the way this sounds so I think I'll use it."

M "I suspect jazz improv is different" A

Well, the main use of theory is in writing dissertations, thereby ever expanding academia's role in explaining what actual creative people have done and what they must have been thinking at the time.

Reminds me of the scene in "Back to School" where Rodney Dangerfield flunks an analysis of Kurt Vonnegut's writing that he had hired Kurt Vonnegut to write for him.

[jonesbrass]

Reminds me of the scene in "Back to School" where Rodney Dangerfield flunks an analysis of Kurt Vonnegut's writing that he had hired Kurt Vonnegut to write for him.

I'm a huge Vonnegut fan, and that is one of my favorite movie scenes of all time . . . really falls nicely in line with Vonnegut's sense of humor, as well.

One of my favorite Vonnegut quotes:

"If I should ever die, God forbid, let this be my epitaph:
THE ONLY PROOF HE NEEDED
FOR THE EXISTENCE OF GOD
WAS MUSIC."

[sloan]

Reminds me of the scene in "Back to School" where Rodney Dangerfield flunks an analysis of Kurt Vonnegut's writing that he had hired Kurt Vonnegut to write for him.

Only a tuba player would use a Dangerfield reference when a Woody Allen reference is available.

But...why do you think that Kurt Vonnegut has any idea about how his creative process actually works?

Or...given a commission to write an analysis of Kurt Vonnegut, what does the rest of his work suggest that Kurt Vonnegut would do with that opportunity?

[eupher61]

"General, it is both an honor and a privilege and a pleasure to welcome you to that which without your magnanimous generosity we wouldn't be standing in the middle of it."
--Henry Blake, M*A*S*H,Season 2, Episode 15: Officers Only

[Rick Denney]

according to the theory professor giving that part of the exam, VW was trying to stray away from normal conventions of the time, but at the same time, making something that was aesthetically pleasing. It was interesting---and relieving!!!! -----to realize that my initial analysis was in the right neck of the woods!

Sounds like the rest of us were in that same neck of the woods, heh, heh.

Don't apologize for being a newbie. You're getting it--you'll do fine.

Rick "afraid we'd run Mr. 1984 off and glad we didn't" Denney

[KevinBock]

F Blues, D-Major with episodes(learn this term if you expect to explain theory to any Student), F Melodic minor. There are exceptions in each movement of course, but those instances are where V-Dub broke conventions. Please don't assume that Ralph wrote everything in this "piece" to sound good. There is a reason for music theory, conventionality dictates simple rules. Whether or not VW accomodated to these rules 100% of the time is absolutely debatable, but please, don't assume that composers write things because "they sounded good" if you don't understand it. That is exactly the reason why every two bit punk kid isn't Mozart or Beethoven; there are exceptions and personal preference in altered chords for every composer. It is not "this sounds good" but more, "this is MY solution to the problem." Anyone who has taken intense music theory courses can attest to that, there are ALWAYS multiple answers, and these are simply predicated on school of teaching. There is more "EUREKA!" in music than any musical master would care to admit. It may not be "I like this sound" but more of, "this works HERE."

My 2 cents on this board, I can't wait for the flaming either.

[MartyNeilan]

bloke "I would not have bothered as I have no dog in this hunt whatsoever, but you seemed so eager. To be perfectly frank, in certain ways 'music theorists' sometimes remind me of other 'scientists' such as Dr.'s of chiropractic and psychiatry."

Tell me more...

[Uncle Buck]

bloke "I would not have bothered as I have no dog in this hunt whatsoever, but you seemed so eager. To be perfectly frank, in certain ways 'music theorists' sometimes remind me of other 'scientists' such as Dr.'s of chiropractic and psychiatry."

Tell me more...

Are you sure you didn't intend this guy: