Beginning Student - rent or buy (new or used)?

[tofu]

--

[OldsRecording]

I think you can find a used Gemeinhardt M2 for less than $200, just make sure the pads are in good shape. I have an older M2 and I've been really happy with it.

[Chadtuba]

I bought a half dozen flutes from Taylor Music this time last year for the school's band program and was very happy with them at $188 each. They were all the same brand though at the moment I cannot remember which brand and since I moved 1200 miles away I guess I can't go look to see. Any way, I have spent close to $20K with Taylor over the last 3 years for the schools and have been very happy with all aspects of my purchases.

[Alex F]

Why don't you check with Bloke, Lee Stofer, or Dan Schultz? I'm sure any one of them can help you out. If I'm not mistaken, Bloke deals in woodwinds regularly.

[Nick Pierce]

Rent or buy? Neither. Rent-to-own.

Some music stores will do that, where you rent the instrument, and every payment you make towards it goes towards the eventual cost of the instrument. Here's the kicker (assuming every store does it similarly): if your child switches to a different instrument, or you upgrade to a better rental model, while you are still paying for the other one via rent-to-own, whatever money had accumulated to pay for the first instrument is then applied towards the bill of the second. Make sense?

Some stores might not do it, in fact probably don't. Best way to do it in my opinion though.

[pierso20]

Rent or buy? Neither. Rent-to-own.

Some music stores will do that, where you rent the instrument, and every payment you make towards it goes towards the eventual cost of the instrument. Here's the kicker (assuming every store does it similarly): if your child switches to a different instrument, or you upgrade to a better rental model, while you are still paying for the other one via rent-to-own, whatever money had accumulated to pay for the first instrument is then applied towards the bill of the second. Make sense?

Some stores might not do it, in fact probably don't. Best way to do it in my opinion though.

Best ways thought up unfortunately won't help too much

Because children at that age are pretty fickle, purchasing can sometimes seem daunting....but remember that you're probably not going to be purchasing an expensive starter instrument. Don't bother with renting or renting to own when the instrument is really inexpensive as a student instrument anyway.

Spend the $200 for a starter flute, and then if your child is still playing (and loves it) in a few years, that is the time to upgrade to something that'll be "nicer" than the "starter".

[Dan Schultz]

Why don't you check with Bloke, Lee Stofer, or Dan Schultz? .....

Thanks for the plug, but I don't have any flutes at the moment except for a couple of 'loaners'.

In response to the original thread question.... I think your best bet is to look for a good used Gemeinhardt M2 or Bundy (mady by Selmer)... even if you have to spend a few bucks to have it looked at by a repairman and maybe getting it repadded. A 'rummage sale' Gemeinhardt M2 plus a complete repad is still a better long-term deal than a 'no-name' flute at half the price. Be very wary of the 'great deals' you see at some of the discount houses or on fleabay.

[Thomas Maurice Booth]

Here are three listings for student flutes I have ran across in the last couple of weeks. Two of the are under $200 and one is $350. I don't know anything about them or the seller(s) but they appear to be what you're looking for.

http://buffalo.craigslist.org/msg/816340508.html" target="_blank

http://buffalo.craigslist.org/msg/810697801.html" target="_blank

http://buffalo.craigslist.org/msg/802113767.html" target="_blank

TMB

[Carroll]

I hate to disagree, but I think I disagree. I, too, am a band director. The music store that services us rents the main band instruments for $30 for the first three months... thats $10 per month! After three months the kids (parents) can choose to continue renting at $30 per month, or buy the thing outright. The store will give them a 35% discount from the list price if they buy. By the time three months is up the kid knows if band is for them, if this is the right axe, and if they really NEED a better instrument. I will rent for my own children and then buy used if they decide to really pursue it. If they achieve a higher skill/commitment level I will purchase a better instrument for them.

[Rick Denney]

A used instrument in good condition has probably depreciated all it's going to. That means that if it's cared for, it will be worth as much a year (or 10 years) from now as it is today. So, buying one is essentially a no-risk deal--if the child doesn't persevere, sell the instrument for what you paid for it, less perhaps the cost of maintenance (which would be required in all scenarios), and effectively pay zero rent.

Think of it as renting an instrument for $0 per month, but with a security deposit equal to the market value of the instrument. You cannot possibly do that well with any regular rental or rent-to-own plan, as long as you have the money for the security deposit (and can enforce good care of the instrument).

Some principles should be observed for this plan to work well, though:

1. Choose quality instruments with good reputations that have withstood the test of time. Those are the ones that won't lose value when they are no longer the flavor of the month.

2. Keep the instrument in top maintenance.

3. Don't buy new instruments. Only a few top pro models won't depreciate, and it's senseless to put a top pro model in a beginner's hands.

4. Buy at market prices. That requires keeping an eye on the market. But the purchase price should include the cost of bringing it up to top maintenance.

Any alternative approach (such as a favorable-seeming rent-to-own plan) should be compared to this one in terms of life-cycle costs. Also, I know nothing of flutes, but I would much rather have a used Miraphone 186 than a new Allora 186 for the same money. In ten years, the Miraphone will be worth the same (probably even in real dollars), and the Allora will be worth no more than half that. (I'm picking on the Allora unfairly as an example of a budget instrument marketed to people who insist on buying new but who have a budget better suited to a used instrument.)

Rick "who has never lost significant money on instruments when following these principles" Denney

[pierso20]

As a band director, I would recommend buying outright rather than the rent to own option. With rent to own, I see parents pay LIST PRICE for a beginner instrument. Of course they are paying over a couple years(as you would if you bought outright on a credit card with 30% interest!!). With the rent to own plan there is generally no room for price negotiation at all and many companies also charge a maintenance and repair fee every month.

In a perfect world, I would like to see my beginner flute players buy a good intermediate model open hole flute (WITH PLUGS!) so as to avoid needing to step up to a higher quality instrument in the next several years. If the student does become pretty serious with the playing, they will have some experience playing on an open hole before they are in the market for a more expensive flute. If they give up in the first few years, this instrument will have a significantly higher re-sale value than a beginner model(that cost more through a rent to own plan)

A Gemeinhardt 3 or 3sh are good examples of this instrument that will sell outright for less than what a beginner model would cost through a rent to own plan.

Good luck

I happen to think this is the best advice I've read here. Especially in respect to the open hole issue...very important if a student wants to step up.

[J.c. Sherman]

My shop does rent-to-own of new or overhauled instruments. 3 months up front, then monthly after that. I think that's a good deal. Granted, I would do that for my kid, and if after the 3 months they enjoy it, I'd get them a high-quality used instrument. But the 3 month plan we offer has no long-term strings, so it's a very affordable way to try it out.

That said, I was glad to have my Grandfather's Artley flute (Elkhart, not Nogales) to begin on. I still have it, but prefer my pro instruments of course But hey, Artley was good enough for Jethro Tull!

J.c.S.