Antique Value

[sailn2ba]

Do old tubas have the kind of antique value that would make it unwise to irreversibly update them?
One reason I ask is that I have a Miraphone 185 (3 rotaries) from the early 60s? (no serial # ANYWHERE) that has clockwork springs. I also have another 4 rotary valve horn that I always use because of the 4th valve, and because the clockworks feel relatively slow. However, the Miraphone would be kind of a neat horn for oompah band and Christmas caroling, etc, because it's raw brass and has those antiquey-looking silver s-linkages.
I've thought about putting uni-ball linkages on it. I would use the horn on certain gigs if the valves worked better. . . and if the replacement didn't look too modern. However, I'm reluctant to start chopping up a neat-looking horn.

[sailn2ba]

Thanks. I get the "no antique value".
It's really not a cost thing. (When the stock market recovers) I'm shopping for a 5-valve horn. Hadn't considered cutting a 4th into the old horn. It's just that there are gigs where a cool-looking, light-weight, sing-out axe would be used. . . and, as I said, I'm reluctant to start cutting. If I do, though, there seems to be enough instruction on the 'net to make uni-bals a DIY project.
I

[bill]

Just a comment on "Antique." The Custom Service apparently uses a criterion something like this:

Antiques, they concluded, were objects that pre-dated the mass
production of objects in the 1830s. Since the defining moment went
back about 100 years, the office defined an antique as something made
over 100 years ago. Duty was collected on objects younger than the
century-old divider, and it still is

This is how the PBS series Antiques Road Show delineates antiques.

For someone born in 1940, you do not even have an old horn.

[tbn.al]

Do old tubas have the kind of antique value that would make it unwise to irreversibly update them?

I just sold a circa 1910 Bielefelder 4v rotary for $1500. There are probably less than 100 playable examples in the world. A couple are in museums. The guy who bought it wanted it more than I did. It was a good little player that was probably worth more to someone who did beergarten playing than it was to me. Hence the definition of antique value. What it will bring on the open market. To find out you have to sell it.

[imperialbari]

Very few brass instruments have any value beyond that of their ability to play.

This tuba in question has slow clockspring valves. This problem is not foreign to me. Some older instruments have various types of devices for tightening the clocksprings, some don’t. To me the latter type looks like demanding quite a bit of work to have the springs working faster. My shortcut is to use woven elastics intended for underwear or other light clothing. I use the white version. Other colours may be available if you want a show style decorative effect.

Older S-links tend to emit clicking sounds. There are fine procedures for drilling out holes and getting new screws with the same threading but a thicker shaft. In some situations I just got the new screws with the conical or bottle shaped shaft.

This given tuba has more playing left in it. The owner has applications for it. Make it play better with as little effort and as little cost as possible. And as hinted: if some repairs/enhancements look funny, then try to make the looks part of the show.

It is about keeping the proportions right. If I had an equally old 5 valve BBb tuba from B&S or the predecessors of that company, I would invest more money in keeping it going.

Klaus Smedegaard Bjerre

[tubatooter1940]

Klaus,
I realize the depth of your fabulous experience and expertise as a tuba player and collector. Your suggestions that you post have been so insightful and innovative.
Now you are removing elastic from you undies to power up slow or sticky tuba valves.
I think you have been hanging out with Bloke too much here lately.
I'm starting to worry about you.
Dennis

[windshieldbug]

If you just want the valves to work faster, check out the thread that's going on now about using coil springs with old clockworks. If you don't care about "factory" results, one solution there doesn't even look like any overt modification.

[imperialbari]

Klaus,
I realize the depth of your fabulous experience and expertise as a tuba player and collector. Your suggestions that you post have been so insightful and innovative.
Now you are removing elastic from you undies to power up slow or sticky tuba valves.
I think you have been hanging out with Bloke too much here lately.
I'm starting to worry about you.
Dennis

Thanks for your empathy, but you extrapolate at least one detail.

I do not strip neither to or from my underwear to keep my valves going. The best to be said about my late mum and my former wife is that they were good with textiles both for production and repair. When I was the head of a tiny music school on the Faroes 3+ decades ago, there were no repairmen around the corner, so when instruments had problems solutions had to been invented on basis of the available tools and materials. As I found relevant stuff in my wife’s hellbox at especially one case of a trombone rotor problem, and as my southpaw trombone professor found this repair especially interesting because it made my trombone bi-dextral (if that is an English word), then I continued working with textiles, all bought new and never having been used for their original purposes.

Another thread tells of vectors, which is one of the math areas I remember from my engineering studies. When I didn’t like the speed of return of my main slide trigger on my euph I applied textile elastics exactly in the vector lines. A fine repairman didn’t like the looks, but admitted that he never could match the action with spiral springs.

My main instruments, which were just euph and bones, until the basses entered the arena, all had my small ergonomic or acoustical modifications. Another repairman once laughed of a triple-8 loop around a branch and a stay of my euph and told me that he would never believe in any acoustical effect of that strip of cotton cloth. When I told that it was for fastening the hook of my harness (baritone sax style) for standing concerts, he changed his attitude: Had I just known about that idea, then I wouldn’t have burnt all that lacquer when soldering on carrying rings! (And my price tag was lower by dimensions).

Klaus

[sailn2ba]

Hei, . . Thanks for the suggestion. I notice, also, the the accompanying posts on replacing clockworks.. . .and I really admire folks who have such impressive craftsmanship. (BLOKE, how the heck do you keep those disc halves lined up while you solder them?). This is a busy time of year for sailors and for oompah-ers, but I will take a look at textile-based enhancements.