Smaller = louder??

[MartyNeilan]

Just wanted to post an interesting observation. I am currently preparing for my senior recital (Nov 16) and rehearsed in my school's new "intimate" recital hall today. I am playing all of my tubas for different pieces, and was startled to find that the horn that came across as the loudest was...........the lil' ol' F tuba. Since the timbre is more brilliant than the Martin BAT or the fundamental-heavy 2145; the 14 1/2 inch belled medium bore F tuba cut like a knife and projected like mad. Guess that helps explain why our brethren in the bone section can crank out the dB with the same amout of brass that makes up a couple of our valve slides.

[Tom Holtz]

Please correct me if I'm wrong ( I'm sure someone will ) but I seem to remember reading somewhere that the U.S. Marine band did something similar with large tubas and small tubas ( not necessarily those keys ).

We normally use CC tubas for the section work. We don't all play BAT's, many of us (including myself) are on HB-21's or similar. With three tubas at the back of a band, you don't need everyone on BAT's. I think people tend to forget that a 4/4 HB-21 is still a pretty damned big horn.

When a piece calls for a small tuba/big tuba combination, we don't pooh-pooh the instrumentation and hammer out all the parts on CC. Having the different colors available in the section is a great thing, even though it means lugging the extra horn. The "Greek Dances" by Skolkattas is scored for three CC's and an F, and anything scored in traditional brass band format calls for two Eb's and two BBb's. When those sorts of things come along, we bust out the F's and Eb's.

You can make a lot of sound with an F tuba. Again, we tend to forget that it's a <I>tuba</I> and it's a big axe. Just because there's something bigger doesn't mean it will be louder/darker/better. Those things are determined by the person playing them. I sit next to Cameron Gates and his Walter Nirschl thundertub. If I give Cameron my little Yamaha 621 F and play his BAT, he'll still bury me.

As far as recordings go, well, an audio engineer with the proper equipment and experience in the art of recording can make some amazing things happen for you, regardless of your instrument. Never be afraid to treat the sound guy to a frosty beverage once in a while.

[Getzeng50s]

I dont knwo if i would use the word "cut through" when refering to the sound that the F tuba makes in an ensemble. it just sounds like a LARGE euphonium. its distinctively different than a CC horn. and has a beautiful soloistic quality.

[Chuck(G)]

A friend described the old 60's-era little Besson F as the loudest tuba he'd ever played.

I can remember hearing a tuba ensemble made up of largish rotary BBb horns (including a Miraphone 190), with one guy playing a little YBB-621. I could hear the 621 clearly above the other monsters.

It's probably a matter of spectral distribution. A little horn can't help but have more higher harmonic content in its sound and the normal human ear is much more sensitive at higher frequencies (below 1000 Hz anyway) than it is at low frequencies.

[Getzeng50s]

i was thinking the same thing, about the 3/4 horns. in highschool, i played a 3/4 convertible tuba in marching band, and was much clearer and louder than all the sousaphones or 4/4 + horns

[Rick Denney]

I am playing all of my tubas for different pieces, and was startled to find that the horn that came across as the loudest was...........the lil' ol' F tuba.

I think there are several issues at play here.

Firstly, it is not easy at all to separate our sense of what is loud from our sense of the timbre of the instrument. A trombone may be ear-splittingly loud, but most would readily agree that a tuba sound is bigger. So, what do we mean when we use terms like "bigger" and "louder"?

For me, "louder" applies when I want the instrument to sound like an individual voice, well-distinguished within the ensemble sound. "Bigger" applies when I want the tuba to enlarge the sound of the whole ensemble. It takes a different tone color as much as the ability to swing the needle on an SPL meter.

I've also noticed that tubas often described as "dark" often have sound with less upper harmonic content, resulting in what to me is a woofy sound. This does not promote clarity or a sense of presence. The good players on such instruments distinguish themselves by the ability to add harmonic content to the sound of the instrument so that the power has something to work with tonally (think Bobo playing a Miraphone). Those upper harmonics are what carries the sound to the back row, it seems to me. It was actually an oboe player who first described that concept to me. One of the things I like the most about my Holton is that it has a colorful sound with lots of obvious but well-blended upper harmonic content. To me, that is the distinguishing characteristic of the best big tubas, and I played a lot of them before I found it in an instrument I could afford.

For music such as transcriptions of Berlioz, that individual high tuba voice is important for the music originally in the tuba part, because Berlioz mostly used the tuba as a soloistic color instrument. The transcribed bass parts, however, must provide the foundation. That, to me, is the main reason to use both a BAT and an F tuba in the tuba section for music like that.

My ideal horn for band is the Holton. It has the upper harmonic content to carry the sound to the back row, but still the breadth of sound to enlarge the whole ensemble rather than to pierce through as an individual voice. The tuba sound is definitely present, but not dominating, even when played loudly. I think this expands the tonal palette of the band, rather than homogenize it further. I also think it's why early bands often used sousaphones or big tubas the size of sousaphones.

Thinking from another perspective, I once use my Yamaha 621 F when playing a band transcription of The Damnation of Faust. My lips were flapping out the bell because of how loudly I was trying to play, yet the conductor kept asking for more, claiming the sound was not getting past the front edge of the stage. I had two choices: I could get a bigger F tuba or a shallower mouthpiece and go trombone-like. I opted for the former, and that's when I bought the B&S Symphonie. It is much, much easier to hear amid the general band tutti, and much easier to play such that it can be heard, without having to resort to a piercing sound. But it still produces an F-tuba sound--an individual voice distinguishable within the ensemble rather than making the ensemble itself sound larger.

Rick "who would not play a solo recital on the Holton" Denney