Convincing my family I need F tuba

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MartyNeilan
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Post by MartyNeilan »

If you don't have to have the latest and greatest 6/4 monster piston BAT F, there are many deals to be found on older smaller rotary valve F's. These will work fine for recital literature and lighter orchestral stuff. Tuning and low register may take more work, but extra practice has not hurt very many.
Also, look for what else you can cut back on. I wear old clothes, drive an old car (when it runs, otherwise I ride my 1987 Specialized Rockhopper Comp, usually with a rainsuit on and a tuba on my back), cut my own hair, skip lunch when I have to, and in general spend as little on myself as possible. I get a kick out of the "kids" at my school who eat out every day and drive new cars but marvel at how I have the money to buy a new metronome or a mouthpiece - "they could never possibly afford that."

P.S. I WILL be dropping a couple of bills on my wife's upcoming birthday present lest you all think I am a totally unbearable tightwad :wink:
Last edited by MartyNeilan on Tue Oct 19, 2004 12:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Dan Schultz
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Post by Dan Schultz »

tubarepair wrote:Daryl "who is expecting a Bush/Kerry type of response from this post" Hickman
If it was up to Kerry.... EVERYONE would be entitled to an F tuba who wanted one.
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Rick Denney
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Post by Rick Denney »

mandrake wrote:What about a crap tuba?
My first F tuba was a Musica that I bought in a surplus store for $1000. Premium F's at the time were in the range of $5K to 6K, with some cheaper alternatives just coming available (like the Yamaha 621 that was a bargain it's first couple of years).

That cheap Musica F would have been completely acceptable for the sorts of things a music-student needs an F for. It had only four valves, which made it unusable for things like quintet and for some solo literature, but it would do Berlioz and Stravinsky with no problem, along with most solo lit that really needs to be played on F.

I bought a more versatile F about a year or two later. When I did, I knew exactly what I wanted it to do, and I already knew how to play it. Also, I traded my Musica away (to a student who also used it to learn F) for about the same value in return as that $1000. Thus, the cost of ownership was zero.

For a similar instrument, think Amati.

And, for the record, I just paid less than half the price of a typical new F for an old five-valve B&S Symphonie, which many pros would be happy to use, and maybe happier to use than any new F. Shine is over-rated. I could easily have afforded this instrument with the proceeds of a summer job, say, stocking groceries.

Rick "who thinks any undergraduate tuba student should be able to demonstrate his potential on a Miraphone 186 or 188 contrabass and an Amati F, and use gig money, other earnings, and some trading skills to upgrade from there" Denney
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Post by vmi5198 »

kontrabass wrote:It is imperative, if you want a career as a tuba player, to start playing F tuba in college, preferably around 2nd or 3rd year.
Sorry, but this just isn't true! I personally don't know why anyone should play F tuba at all! My BE 983 is a much better high horn than an F tuba any day... because it is actually in tune!

I do feel that you need a low horn and a high horn, but why F tuba? Eb is way more versatile than F will ever be.
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Post by Ryan_Beucke »

I believe that many tuba players double on C and Eb, as well as C and F. It's not a question of keeping the two tuned in 4ths, but just a preference of sound and feel.
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vmi5198
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Post by vmi5198 »

mandrake wrote:Why do you feel this way? Should even players of C instruments double on E-flat?
What are you talking about? What is this "rule" about only playing Eb if you have a Bb tuba? I don't understand... what I DO understand is the amount of ludicrous of this statement :?

Listen, once you are reaching the end of your Bachelor's, say 3rd or 4th year, getting a high horn is probably a good idea, especially if you want to further your career. However, it does not need to go any deeper than that! You need a high horn and a low horn - thats it! Ya, I play C - a GREAT C tuba, but I prefer an Eb over any F any day! So, why shouldn't I play it if I feel it works best for me?

A lot of teachers, like Dennis Miller to name but one, prefer you to play on C and F, but when I ask him why F and NOT Eb, he gives me some bull excuse that makes NO sense!

Come on people, you have a brain... use it! Play what works best, and don't get caught up in ridiculous rules like Bb/Eb or C/F crap... it is nonsense. I guess it is better you find this out here, rather than pretending you know what you are talking about and end up really embarressing yourself someday! :)
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Post by Dan Schultz »

Doc wrote:Well Mark, there is good news. The stigma and stereotype that has been associated with Eb the last few decades is slowly eroding. Eb's are having a comeback. .....

.....Logically, Eb makes sense as an all-around-can-only-have-one-tuba.

I happen to like F tuba. I'd like to own another, but I wouldn't pass up an Eb that would work better. There's no legitimate reason why someone should exclude Eb from the list of bass tuba possibilities (regardless of contrabass key), unless of course the individual horn in question does not fit/match the player and his concept of sound. If I had my way, I'd own one in each key. Doc
RIGHT ON! (how's that for showing my age?!) I agree with you, Doc. I started on Eb in the 50's mainly because that's what many of the grade schools taught... since the bass fingerings LOOK like treble clef trumpet fingerings.... 'cept for the clef sign. I still play mostly Eb and would use Eb for my only horn if I could find one with the depth of my B & S stencil BBb rotary. I've played Eb, BBb, CC, and F and... in my opinion... the migration between the Eb and BBb fingerings is extremly easy and I can switch in the middle of a tune if I like. For my purposes, I'll probably stick with the BBb and Eb horns.
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Post by Getzeng50s »

dont bother convincing them. you dont need to cinvince your family you need one. If you need one, get a student loan or something. thats what i did. when i told my rents i needed another tuba, they giggled, asked me if i needed it and if it was necessary, i told them of course it was, then they were behind me in purchasing one... (only in moral support) lol finincial was my bag, i did what i had to do. good luck
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Post by Captain Sousie »

Why do you 'need' an F tuba? I played through my years on a 4/4 CC, which I saved for and bought with my own money, and I was the best at my university. You don't have to have and F to play high, it makes it easier but you don't need it. With my CC I have a solid G above the staff, in tune and can play up there with a minimum of stress. Practice will solve most woes. When they don't, find a way around it.

News flash, mommy and daddy won't pay for everything for your whole life. Get used to that now. It will save you grief later.

Flame on.
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Post by Getzeng50s »

Captain Sousie wrote: and I was the best at my university.



Flame on.
you sound like a trumpet player
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Post by Captain Sousie »

I will have you know that I was told by a trumpet player that I had the biggest ego that she had ever heard of.

By the way, I didn't say how good, or young, the rest of the players were

As for the "flame on"... :twisted:
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Post by kontrabass »

There are many universities out there with not many great tuba players, therefore to be the 'best' at your particular university should be a given if you want to succeed, unless you happen to be at a school with a large studio with many skilled players.
I know someone who made it through school on only one horn, sounds great all over it (even in the high range) and was definitely the best at their university. BUT this person has had trouble at auditions simply because their equipment does not produce the necessarily light sound for some of the so-called 'F tuba literature'. If and when they finally buy an F tuba, they will be years behind in learning the fingerings and learning to play the instrument in tune. Way better to get that done in school.
Bottom line, the purpose of F tuba is not necessarily to 'play high', it's to play *light*, a problem not solved by technique and hours of practice (which is also a given if you want to succeed).
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Post by Z-Tuba Dude »

kontrabass wrote:...the purpose of F tuba is not necessarily to 'play high', it's to play *light*......
An interesting point (which I personally feel is a very good one) which makes me wonder, out loud, why the 6/4 F's are all the rage these days....
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Post by RyanSchultz »

vmi5198 wrote:
kontrabass wrote:It is imperative, if you want a career as a tuba player, to start playing F tuba in college, preferably around 2nd or 3rd year.
Sorry, but this just isn't true! I personally don't know why anyone should play F tuba at all! My BE 983 is a much better high horn than an F tuba any day... because it is actually in tune!

I do feel that you need a low horn and a high horn, but why F tuba? Eb is way more versatile than F will ever be.
I think this is a completely different subject. The Eb over F argument certainly has its merits.

Regardless of who pays (parents, loan, school. . .) for a bass tuba (F or Eb), it is important to get started. Most US college professors seem to gravitate toward a bass tuba and you need one to be competitive at Orchestral auditions. I bought my first with a student loan/credit card as an undergraduate.

Good luck.
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Post by Lee Jacobs »

Let me make a few things clear. I am not asking my parents to buy me an F tuba. I am asking them to co-sign on a student loan so that I can buy an F tuba. I will be the one making the payments. I will be the one with the debt. I have been thoroughly insulted by many of the comments on this post. Most (not all) of your comments have given me absolutely no help. If I had known the type of response I would get on this forum I never would have posted this topic in the first place. I know that on many auditions it is not necessary but very beneficial to play on an F (or Eb) tuba. Please stop making frivolous comments on this post. I'm sorry to all of the people who have made serious comments on here. This message is not for you. I hope that in the future we can all pay a little more attention to saying what you think will be helpful to the person posting a topic rather than what will be helpful in satisfying your need of just saying anything.
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Post by Rick Denney »

Lee Jacobs wrote:I have been thoroughly insulted by many of the comments on this post. Most (not all) of your comments have given me absolutely no help. If I had known the type of response I would get on this forum I never would have posted this topic in the first place. I know that on many auditions it is not necessary but very beneficial to play on an F (or Eb) tuba. Please stop making frivolous comments on this post.
With all due respect to you, even though you made the first post, you don't own the conversation that follows. You didn't supply us with all the informaiton concerning your background and situation, so you can't expect all the responses to be right on target. Also, some people are responding to comments made my other people, and may or may not address your issue. Finally, you paid nothing for all this advice, and free advice requires you to apply your own usability filter.

Take what you need and leave the rest. Challenge what is presented if you need clarification or if you disagree, but don't complain about getting free advice. Remember all the other people who might be in a similar situation, but who did not ask the question. A response might not be useful to you, but might be useful to them. That is the reason why forums like this are public.

Rick "always grateful for free advice even when he doesn't follow it" Denney
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Post by Joe Baker »

Lee Jacobs wrote: I am asking them to co-sign on a student loan so that I can buy an F tuba. ... I will be the one with the debt.
Sorry, if your parents co-sign, they will not only be taking on the debt, they will be the FIRST target of collection, since their deeper pockets/better credit rating makes them more likely to have the means to pay. Just because you plan to make the payments doesn't mean you will be able to do so.

I probably started the chain of comments that offended you. I can't say that I'll lose any sleep over that, though. It just sounded as though you were desperate for cooperation from your parents, as though the lack of that cooperation would sink your plans. My point was simply that you don't need to let a setback like that stop you. Start making sacrifices toward the end of getting the F tuba. Those sacrifices may inspire your family to take a greater risk on you, or they may not. If not, you sacrifice a little more and then you don't need them to take that risk. You'll have your horn, with no debt.

If that offends you, I hope you develop a thicker skin before you hit the working world.
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Post by Mark »

Joe Baker wrote:Sorry, if your parents co-sign, they will not only be taking on the debt, they will be the FIRST target of collection, since their deeper pockets/better credit rating makes them more likely to have the means to pay.
And, if the parents need to borrow money, the co-signed loan will be added to the calculation of whether they are elligible.
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