Serial Numbers for Amati Kraslice (Cerveny) tuba?

[Waltski]

I purchased my first tuba this year with the hopes of learning enough to play TubaChristmas 2008 in Portland, OR . I've been learning mostly on my own, although I certainly realize I need a better teacher...

The tuba in question is a 4-valve rotary with S-linkages, bore of 0.795, bell diameter 15 3/4 inches and length of 40 inches. It has had one previous owner, a former student of John Griffiths who I'm told helped him select the instrument when it was purchased new around 1979 from Boosey & Hawkes(?) in Canada. It is stenciled as an Amati Kraslice, although my local music repair shop (Wally's Music) tells me that because of the rotary valves it is probably a Cerveny. Most of the lacquer is still present.

I've had the tuba ultrasonically cleaned, valves oiled and linkages adjusted. I've also had it briefly played by the tubist for the Portland Symphony Orchestra who confirmed it looked like a Cerveny instrument, indicated that the tuba was in good condition and did not seem to have any obvious playing flaws (listening to him play made me realize just how good this tuba can sound).

Are there any serial numbers on this instrument that could confirm the date of manufacture? I'm including a picture of the Amati Kraslice for your viewing pleasure...

[Dan Schultz]

Nice horn! Amati and Cerveny are one in the same. Amati is the parent company. You might be able to find particulars at their website here:

http://www.amati.cz/english/production/ ... alogue.htm

[jonesbrass]

Looks like a Cerveny 681 to be, judging from the valve slide layout, size of bell, etc.

[bassax]

My Amati/Cerveny tuba looks just like this one but it's the Kaiser model with a larger bore and bell. I like it a lot!

[bill]

I had a similar horn, a Model 68, similarly badged. It never had a serial number on it so I etched one in to the bottom bow guard so I could identify it to Customs while crossing the international border (Us - Canada). I owned two Amatis and neither had a serial number. This was late 60's, early 70's.

Since you are near or in Portland, consider the Springfield Tuba Caroling event on December 6, in Springfield and the Salem Tuba Christmas on December 24. See you there.

[Matt Walters]

Cerveny (Amati) rotor tubas usually have the serial number stamped in the lever bridge. Look on the lever bridge under the lever springs for a bunch of numbers. Good luck finding a date to go along with it.

[sailn2ba]

Lever bridge is where mine is - #62629. I believe it was made in the early 1980s, has ball joints on the valve push rods. Horn has a few dents and some lacquer wear, but good intonation and sound.

[imperialbari]

The Amati-Denak company apparently uses this system of naming and numbering its models:

On their website all of the rotary brasses are Cerveny and all piston brasses are Amati.

However the denomination of the rotary instruments is more complex. The more valves, the more nickel silver trim, and the more advanced the links in the valve transmission system, the higher the first digit in the model #. And only the models with a first digit higher than or equal with 5 are engraved Cerveny. The 4XX lines and lower are engraved Amati.

However some Amati rotary instruments are superb players, which is not too surprising, as their acoustical design is the exact same as with the corresponding Cerveny models. Nickel silver trim is good for durability, but brass tends to be more responsive.

I have tested a lot of instruments for schools, colleagues, bands, and friends. I have a set of standards I want to be met for my own instruments, but these are not always relevant for the buying person, whom one strives to get the optimal instrument for. In a recent thread I mentioned that my preference of tenor tuba type euphoniums is irrelevant for a young player, who needs a lighter instrument. Some of these tested instruments stand out in my memory, because I should have bought them for myself.

One of these was an Amati oval Tenorhorn in Bb. It had been taken out of communist Czechoslovakia by a traveling Danish trumpet soloist as the only way to get his fee in a form that could be exchanged to Western cash. I was hunting for some other brasses for a local music school, when a Copenhagen store offered me this Amati Tenorhorn. I immediately liked its playing properties, but the school didn’t need it, and I did not dare to try to buy it myself for family reasons. However it would fit the needs of a local band, which I had conducted a few years earlier. The price was fair even if there was no lacquer, no silver, not even nickel silver. Down to the screws in the ball-and-socket transmission, everything was brass. The store had the instrument in commission and was eager enough to sell it, so I could take it home and present it to the band.

They bought that Amati Tenorhorn, and when I entered the band as a player after my retirement I met that instrument again. I tried to buy it from them, but the price they wanted wasn’t fair, so it is still with them.

The old GDR B&S conglomerate used the same modular design system, where the budget line named Weltklang often would display the exact same bore progressions and wraps as the top line marked B&S (only with a more modest outfit around especially the valve transmission). I have samples of B&S and of Weltklang (which I all like), and so has bloke. His B&S Symfonie 4+2RV F tuba has often been mentioned on TubeNet. His Weltklang Eb helicon has been used on his jazz gigs. It must be reasonably good, as he has put a 5th valve on it. And he wasn’t willing to sell it, when I asked a few days ago.

Until Miraphone started spewing out models with names, their 18X series of tubas could be had with various levels of trim put on the same tubing. At least one US retailer/importer had the 186 model made outfitted after his specs and the initials of his store were added to the “186” designation.

Also Besson/B&H have used this modular design system, which makes it possible to find fine instruments with less prestigious engravings.

Klaus Smedegaard Bjerre

[sailn2ba]

Thanks for background. Actually, my #62629 is engraved "Amati Kraslice" and it has silver-finish ferrules.

[Waltski]

Thanks for everyone's kind information and advice. After reading all the posts, I looked at the bridge piece and found a serial number stamped into the metal - the number was 72502.

I also looked more closely at the few pieces of original purchase paperwork that was included when I had the tuba shipped to me. These was a small Boosey & Hawkes (CANADA Ltd.) registration card that had hand-written in the model number field - 68/L.

The paperwork also included another small warranty card from Boosey & Hawkes that states "Your new B&H Boosey & H Hawkes instrument ...is a product of the largest and most complete musical instrument manufacturer in the world." It thanks the buyer for purchasing the Boosey & Hawkes instrument and indicates there is a 1-year warranty against faulty materials and workmanship for the original buyer. However, the card does mention " Although Boosey & Hawkes lacquering is of the highest quality it is regretted that this cannot be covered under by the guarantee."

So could it be that Boosey & Hawkes (CANADA Ltd.) imported a Ceverny tuba (which looks like a 681) and sold it as one of their own company's tubas as a Model 68/L, even though it is stamped as an Amati?

[imperialbari]

I doubt B&H issued a guarantee as if an Amati-engraved instrument was one of their own, but of course I cannot tell what has happened in one of B&H’s overseas branches.

However there was business cooperation between B&H and some GDR and Czech makers. When the British single piston horns went out of fashion, the B&H didn’t start making rotary horns. They had their horns made by B&S (engraved Schneider as well as B&H) and by Lidl.

Neptune of TubeNet plays a huge Cerveny in a UK brass band, but rotary tubas used to be rare in the UK, especially in brass bands (possibly still are rare there). The Czech instruments in the UK were piston instruments made by Amati and engraved La Fleur, Lafleur, or Markis. They used to be the cheapest of B&H’s several lines.

Klaus

[Wyvern]

rotary tubas used to be rare in the UK, especially in brass bands (possibly still are rare there).

Still are rare in the UK! I doubt if rotary tubas make up even 1% in use (and those mostly in orchestras)

[Waltski]

I recently received an email from AMATI's Thomas Prem, which states:

Hello,
yes, this Tuba was manufactured in the cerveny factory for Amati in 1975.
Best regards Thomas Prem.

so I now know the age of my tuba. Thanks to everyone who responded to my query!