Triggers on tubas...

[jon112780]

Most tuba players I see/hear move the 1st slide, as it is easy to move with the left hand. However a couple 'stock' tubas have 2nd slide triggers (Neptune rotary 6/4 CC, and the MW45SLP piston 6/4 F). Do these two horns really need it (Neptune low C#, and 45SLP low F#), and all the others don't? Or have they just found something that hasn't caught on yet?

I guess I'm spoiled because I'm used to my 983 Eb (compensating), and never have to move any other slide but the 1st to get it in tune...

[tbn.al]

I would consider an easy-to-use self-centering (double-sprung) main tuning slide trigger to be a luxurious solution to many problems on many tubas.

Would you consider the Kanstul tune any note feature to fall within your luxurious solution?

[tbn.al]

I can't find any reference to a trigger, only a tune any note slide. Maybe like the old Marzan concept. The only pictures I can find of the concert tubas do seem to show a top side main tuning slide. I've never played one either which is why I asked. My experience with my Marzan Euph was that the tune any tone can get mighty confusing. I found that the ability to alter the pitch of any note was a two edged sword. It wasn't self centering which can really get you off base if you are not on top of your game.

[Wyvern]

Most tuba players I see/hear move the 1st slide, as it is easy to move with the left hand. However a couple 'stock' tubas have 2nd slide triggers (Neptune rotary 6/4 CC, and the MW45SLP piston 6/4 F). Do these two horns really need it (Neptune low C#, and 45SLP low F#), and all the others don't? Or have they just found something that hasn't caught on yet?

I think the trigger on the Neptune is something of a luxury. I rarely require on mine, but then I am not generally a slide puller. If the Neptune does need any adjustment in the low register, then pulling the 5th valve slide is the easiest option.

[jeopardymaster]

Agreed re the Neptune, or at least mine - I never use it. Having a second slide trigger installed on my 186 BBb solved a huge problem, though. B and E below the staff are quite sharp on it, and with the 4th valve slide positioned as it is, pulling 4 is problematic. Before the kicker was installed, I used the horn for Rach 2, and it was a major PITA. After installation, Prok 5 was unmitigated fun.

[J.c. Sherman]

The Kanstul 3/4 CC main tuning slide is in the back and points up. It can be reached for "tuning on the fly".

J.c.

[oedipoes]

I did see the 2nd valve-slide trigger on a rudolf Meinl BBb 5/4 bayreuth model.
I played it for some minutes, was impressed by the instrument, but did not feel the need of triggering any notes.

On my yamaha YBB 321 I pull the first valve slide for pedal notes, but the upright valve setup makes that pretty problematic in faster passages.

I have a main tuning slide on my besson prestige euphonium and there it makes BIG sense for some higher notes.

[The Jackson]

A gentleman I play with in community band has an idiot-proof main tuning slide rig on his Sanders horn (4/4, German, horizontal main tuning slide, etc.). It's a rod attached to the main slide with a fulcrum on the 2nd valve slide. I believe he uses a lighter lube on it and that's what he has in his left hand when playing. The horn has four valves, but he movings around the low range with ease.

[keegan watson]

I play a meinl weston 45K which also has the trigger (or in my case some what of a lever) and I NEED that for the A at the top of the staff. The first valve slide is rather short and hard to get to because of the fourth and fifth valve slides, so pulling it is out of the picture. I suppose I could play it with the third valve but I have never been too comfortable for some reason doing that. Just my $.02.
Cheers,
Keegan

[imperialbari]

On my Kanstul marching baritone in G the tune-any-note device just is a second main tuning slide placed after the valve block. The slide pulls towards the player and has a ring inside the bow for returning the slide inwards.

The 1st slide has a saddle for the right thumb, but I don’t like using it, as I am mostly using my left hand for tuning devices (aside of trombone slides of course).

My left hand grip has the thumb going through the second main slide’s ring and holding around the 1st piston casing. By bending my thumb joint I can make the tuning slide go out. However the ring is far too large even for my thick thumb to pull in the slide without radically changing the thumb position. My solution, as you may have guessed, is the application of some textile elastic between the ring and a stay. Works well for notes involving the 3rd valve.

Klaus

[Sam Gnagey]

I played a Rudi Meinl 5/4 CC for many years. I found the second valve trigger very useful for adjusting pitch on 2&3 valve combinations, especially for the Eb just below the staff. The Abs were right on with the slide in all the way, but the Ebs needed the adjustment. I would also use it if I were using the 2&4 combination rather than 2,3,5.

[imperialbari]

I played a Rudi Meinl 5/4 CC for many years. I found the second valve trigger very useful for adjusting pitch on 2&3 valve combinations, especially for the Eb just below the staff. The Abs were right on with the slide in all the way, but the Ebs needed the adjustment. I would also use it if I were using the 2&4 combination rather than 2,3,5.

In our Royal Lifeguard band the two 2nd tubists march 4/4 CC tubas, whereas they use larger tubas for concert. The 1st tubist marches an F tuba, which often started out being his concert instrument. As the parade season is from November through March (change of guard while the residency is at the Copenhagen palace) the regulation woolen coat is a very heavy one, especially when going wet.

Hence the musicians have their instruments stripped down to a minimum of valves. 4 on the F tuba which then has a 2nd slide trigger added exactly for the reasons told by Sam.

The bass trombone only has one valve, and the euphonium player marches a 3 valve non-comp Hirsbrunner with a 3rd valve trigger (only one euph, as there are two baritones).

Klaus

[sailn2ba]

This trigger option looks like a good way to address intonation problems in the bottom range (DDD - CCC for a 4-valve BBb, 5+ leger lines). (Well, "problem" is, they're sharp). I've been thinking in terms of a 5th valve, but, it appears to me, that a longer main tuning slide and a two-way trigger on my current Amati (Cerveny 681) could get me there.
How does one go about adding that?

[Peach]

This trigger option looks like a good way to address intonation problems in the bottom range (DDD - CCC for a 4-valve BBb, 5+ leger lines). (Well, "problem" is, they're sharp). I've been thinking in terms of a 5th valve, but, it appears to me, that a longer main tuning slide and a two-way trigger on my current Amati (Cerveny 681) could get me there.
How does one go about adding that?

A main slide trigger will allow a certain amount of adjustment but ordinarily nothing like enough difference for the adjustments required to give you a low B. Don't lose sight of the fact that a Bb tuba needs a lot more pull to give you the 'cents' shift you're looking for; roughly twice as much as a Euph and four times that of a trumpet to put it into perspective.

To get just 1" of adjustment in-and-out you'll need the female slide at least 3" long, same on the male slide with 2" overlap (this allows 1" keeping the slide 'true' when it's pushed out - probably not enough on some wide tuning slides...). This gives you a static length slide of 4". Add 2" for each additional inch of in-and-out adjustment.
On a Bb tuba how much adjustment do you want?

I think two-way triggers are a great tool - I'm certainly looking into one on my Bb - but we need to be aware of their limitations.
Best,
MP

[highsierra]

I have a 2nd slide kicker on my Rudolf Meinl 4345 rotary. It is very convenient for 1&2, 2&3 and 2&4 options. Funny this topic has come up. I am in the process of looking for a 2nd valve slide kicker assembly to put on one of my other tubas so if anyone has an assembly and it's not attached to a tuba, I would be interested in purchasing it from you. Joe? anyone? A RM would fit fine but maybe another make as well. I may have to do some mods to it but that would be ok.

Regards,

Russ Dickman