Magnet Valves

[windshieldbug]

Maybe if we used the valve lever to open an electronic circuit and have that charge the valve magnet, we could make it seem seamless. Of course, we might need to have battery powered tubas, then and we might run the risk of running out of juice in the middle of a concert performance but, well, fiddles break strings and all that so . . .

I've broken strings on my string-action Marzan until I had sense enough to convert the valves to direct-action. I'm liking the possibilities of electric, though... "I'm sorry, Maestro, but when we got to that passage, one of the stagehands tripped over the extension cord, and since there ARE NO other tubas to trade with, I was helpless... "

[Tubaguyry]

Likewise, magnetic force is not that easy to calculate...

Calculate, schmalculate. Math and physics and all that jazz are great, but you never know whether or not something will work until you try it. Helicopters aren't SUPPOSED to be able to fly, but they do!

I'm very interested to see if anyone can come up with a working magnet valve. Keep us posted, all you inventors!

[Ferguson]

Helicopters aren't SUPPOSED to be able to fly, but they do!

Yes, helicopters are supposed to fly. It's not magic. Look up the Bernoulli principle. It's also what makes your tuba work.

SF

[tubatom91]

Are the current valve materials even atracted to magnets? Do they have iron/steel in them? or would we have to go to steel valves?

[windshieldbug]

Aren't Spotted Al's extinct yet? Man, they keep promising...

[Dan Schultz]

Are the current valve materials even atracted to magnets? Do they have iron/steel in them? or would we have to go to steel valves?

Modern valves are stainless steel, monel, or brass with nickel plating... all non-magnetic materials. In order for this to work there would have to be a magnet attached to the bottom of the piston and a magnet with opposing force attached to the inside of the casing. I'm thinking that flat, round rare-earth magnets might be the best shot. I think if those magnets are turned 180 degrees they will repel. I don't have time to mess with it at the moment.

[windshieldbug]

Are you saying that his valves didn't suck enough?

[Dan Schultz]

I know a guy who tried this back when I was in the Army (around 1987 or so)..... Well, he did not have powerful enough magnets and he covered the vent holes, so it sort of worked, but it was not strong enough to repel the valve with much force to the top....

I'll bet these little buggers would work. Might have to search for thinner magnets or extend the bottom caps to make some extra clearance.

http://www.forcefieldmagnets.com/catalo ... ucts_id=50

[Tubaing]

http://www.magnet4less.com/product_info ... cts_id=606

I'm currently thinking of getting these.

I wonder if the magnets in on the bottom of the valves would attract the other valve's magnets and pull them along...

[Henry Gertcher]

Great post. I am actually wondering about an electromagnetic system in which you could have a variable electrical current. This would ensure that as the valve gets closer to being closed the magnetic force is weakened through less electrical energy and as the valves were farther apart the electrical energy increases to increase the magnetism. Now the control for this might be difficult (ie. electronic) but it could be as simple as adding a piece to the valve (imagine a small metal rod) that is attached to a variable electrical control system.

I don't know if it is possible but can you alternate the current in an electromagnet so that the one magnet could both push the valve up and pull it down? If that is possible than you could have a simple control system such that pressing a button (very short action like that of a flute) would engage the magnet to either push or pull the valve up and down. This would be great for people that have problems like arthritis or tendinitis. Also, it would make it easier to play fast passages.

Any one familiar enough with magnetism to tell me if this would work? Right now in my head it seems simple. My problem is that when I was a kid I took things apart and when I put them back together I always had extra parts. That and I don't have a spare tuba to work on. Perhaps a trumpet though.

Henry Gertcher

[tubatom91]

If anybody has the time/ambition to take this project on, I am Eager to see the results!

[Dan Schultz]

http://www.magnet4less.com/product_info ... cts_id=606

I'm currently thinking of getting these.

I wonder if the magnets in on the bottom of the valves would attract the other valve's magnets and pull them along...

Probably not. These rare-earth magnets are quite polar and the force is pretty much directly through the axis.... not out the side.

[Tubaing]

I just ordered a few (13) magnets today!


...and now to play the waiting game.

[windshieldbug]

The coolest part would be that you will no longer need a stand or case for your horn when you're not playing it... just stick it on the 'fridge!

[Dan Schultz]

I just ordered a few (13) magnets today!


...and now to play the waiting game.

Good for you. I'm looking forward to a report. BTW.... be very careful with those magnets. They are very brittle and NEVER allow them to 'snap' together. They can shatter like glass. Since you are going to use them to repel instead of attract, you can add a margin of safety by putting adhesive tape on the 'business' ends.

[Dean]

I must admit, I have a bit of a magnet "fetish" myself. Those powerful rare-earth ones to be exact.


Some of the magnets available on that site are incredibly powerful--DANGEROUSLY powerful, I would say--could easily crush some digits!! (up to 4400 pounds of lifting capacity!!!)

[Tubaing]

I just ordered a few (13) magnets today!


...and now to play the waiting game.

BTW.... be very careful with those magnets. They are very brittle and NEVER allow them to 'snap' together. They can shatter like glass. Since you are going to use them to repel instead of attract, you can add a margin of safety by putting adhesive tape on the 'business' ends.

Thanks for the heads up... I've been using 1 inch sphere and 1x1 inch cylinder for taking out dents (it's been like 5 years now) ... let's just say I learn how to handle and use these magnets through experience.

[Tubaing]

I just received the magnets and tried it on a Conn euph. Basically, it is quieter, but takes a little more effort and moves a little bit slower. Also the magnets in pull on magnets in the valves next to them and make them rotate a little and then attract the other magnet in the same valve, so the magnets probably will have to be secured. What should I use? Super Glue?

[Dan Schultz]

.... What should I use? Super Glue?

You might try some double-faced tape before going to a more permanent media. You'll have to use a solvent to get all the oil off the parts first. Another option might be hot-melt glue.