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[jhickmott]

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[james]

The "181's" with the Firebird valves and bore tapers will carry a different model number as I understand it (maybe a 182?) Roegr Lewis should have an insight here.

As far as comparing the three horns, they are different enough that they are a little hard to compare. It's like comparing different kinds of apples. I'll try to rank then based of my opinions (again, MY OPINIONS)

Pitch/Intonation:
1(a) Firebird
1(b) PT10
2. 181
Firebird takes sole possesion of first in the six valve version. The 181 with six valves rivals the PT10.

Low Register:
1. Firebird
2(a) 181
2(b) PT10

Sound:
1(a) Firebird
1(b) PT10
1(c) 181
I felt I could get the sound I want on any of these instruments. The Firebird is slightly easier to play than the other two.

Response:
1. Firebird
2(a) PT10
2(b) 181
The Firebird just "pops".

Overall from the above voting:
1. Firebird
2. PT10
3. 181

Price (least expensive first):
1. 181
2. PT10
3. Firebird
I ranked them like this after considering the used prices you often see for these models.

To sum up, all three are good instruments. The only one that doesn't seem to have any flaws is the Firebird...but you'll pay a good amount more for one. The pitch on the 181' I've played has been a little tough to manage. The added sixth valve gives more options for tuning and makes this horn much easier to handle. With the Firebird valves and tapers, this horn should be lights out. But I imagine the price will be as well. The PT10 has good sound, pitch, and response. The lower register is do-able. The price is probably somewhere in the middle.

If I were on a budget, I would try to find a good used 181 or PT10. You can usually find a decent 5 valve 181 or an older "pre-PT" PT10 for about $4,000. The "PT" PT-10 will usually run you between $5,000-$6,000. Used Firebirds are a rare find (for good reason) and a new one is around $8,000 right now, I think.

If I had no options for money, then I would buy a Firebird or a Kodiak. (I would also want to try out the new 181 with Firebird valves)

Just my two cents.

-james

[MikeMason]

It'll be 2 or 3 f tuba purchases down the road before you start to know what you really want.Then your opinion/needs will change.Get one you can afford and start learning it.If you have 6-8k i'd do Joe's road trip,let Roger at WWBW listen to you and advise you,and just buy something and learn to play it.It very likely won't be your last...

[circusboy]

I've never played a PT-10, but have spent a little time with the other two.

Though I think it puts me in the distinct minority, I wasn't all that impressed with the Firebird. I found the one that I played to be a bit stuffy and it's sound to be smallish. Yes, intonation was great and the low end just fine, but it just didn't impress.

I've played two 181s and just loved them both. I found them easy to play--just kind of natural for me. I loved the focused, German sound, and found a nice, fat low end and few intonation troubles.

The above is because you asked. I agree with others that you need to try them on for size yourself.

[tclements]

LOVE the Firebird, hate the PT. The Firebird has a very ringing, swirling type of sound, the PT's I have played feel just DEAD to me. Maybe I played bad samples. Good luck!