early years/first year of Miraphone "S" series - S186, etc.

[imperialbari]

The S-thing rather would be a matter about when the marketing thereof started in the US. To my knowledge Miraphone in Germany for a whole lot of years, if not during all of their history, have used the German/Czech modular design system also known from at least B&S (with the cheaper version being Weltklang) and Cerveny (with the model ## below 5XX being engraved Amati).

German Miraphone parameters were with the lower version to the left:

clocksprings versus spiral springs
no garland versus garland
yellow brass versus gold brass
fewer versus more valves

Sadly I haven’t catalogues from before 1993. One has the German and the US model numbers on the same page of specs.

Klaus

[cjk]

Have you contacted Charlie Krause?

Wasn't he the tuba guy at the Brasswind when they started the "S" stuff?

[Rick Denney]

Also, weren't the first S-series Miraphone tubas released with a regular "French" rimmed bell (no nickel-silver wreath)?

Yes. I clearly remember the ads for the S-186 in the TUBA Journal in the middle 80's. The S series had no kranz, and no engraving on the valve bodies, and (a less firm memory) a reduced amount of nickel-silver tubing.

Rick "remembering from 1984 or 1985, when you were a Miraphone dealer" Denney

[Raul I. Rodriguez]

Let me try this:

IF you have an early S-186 model Miraphone tuba (no bell garland) ...

in what number range is your serial number?

16XXX...???

17XXX...??

18XXX...??

higher/lower...??

Thanks!

BUMP!

There are a couple here at school with the numbers 138XX and 141XX. That would put them mid 80's, perhaps?

Raul

[bill]

Serial Number Year Manufactured --- Serial Number Year Manufactured
1463 - 1666 1960 --- 1667 - 1962 1961
1963 - 2198 1962 --- 2199 - 2406 1963
2407 - 2680 1964 --- 2681 - 3033 1965
3034 - 3493 1966 --- 3494 - 4106 1967
4107 - 4833 1968 --- 4834 - 5779 1969
5780 - 6560 1970 --- 6561 - 7559 1971
7560 - 8143 1972 --- 8144 - 8832 1973
8833 - 9502 1974 --- 9503 - 10093 1975
10094 - 10546 1976 --- 10547 - 11062 1977
11063 - 11486 1978 --- 11487 - 1979

This is a table I have used to date Miraphone tubas. I don't know if it applies to your question but I thought it was worth submitting here.

[imperialbari]

bloke, why do you want to know so exactly? Did you take out a 30-years mortgage to buy yours, and now want to know, when that drain on your budget will stop?

K

[Waltski]

What is the difference between the S186 and the 186 pro? I'd like to purchase a Miraphone for my next tuba but don't really see differences between these two models other than the nickel-silver trim.

[imperialbari]

The older S-links had that shape because straight links with the old style connections to the cranks would have prevented the cranks from rotating sufficiently.

The straight links with their variantions on the Ball & Socket principle are lifted above the cranks so that they will not prevent the needed 90° of rotation.

Miraphone offered the same main bugles with the S-links at the same time as with the straight links. The former were considered low end and had a lower first digit in their German model number/ number of Ausführung (realisation). With GDR-era B&S Weltklang had S-links whereas the same main bugle, maybe with more valves, had ball & socket linkages in the B&S version. Some B&S samples have the double-T joints at the lever end, whereas they have ball & socket at the crank end.

Klaus

[UTSAtuba]

This will probably sound repetitive, but I'm still confused. I own a 1974 Mirafone 186, and as stated about someone's horn in the early 80's, I too have straight linkages on my horn instead of the "S-links". I have read some old Mirafone literature, and could not find anything about an option on what kind of linkages come installed on a horn. As far as I know, the linkages are completely original. Was there an option for the linkages, or was it what the company did at the time? Thanks for any comments.

Joseph

[imperialbari]

This will probably sound repetitive, but I'm still confused. I own a 1974 Mirafone 186, and as stated about someone's horn in the early 80's, I too have straight linkages on my horn instead of the "S-links". I have read some old Mirafone literature, and could not find anything about an option on what kind of linkages come installed on a horn. As far as I know, the linkages are completely original. Was there an option for the linkages, or was it what the company did at the time? Thanks for any comments.

Joseph

Yes, as said in my previous posting there were options for either S- or straight links. The former were considered low end and the latter as high end. New S-links are quiet, but worn S-links can only be adjusted by drilling the holes and then using larger gauge screws. The ball & socket links may be adjusted by a screwdriver.

The US importers (as I understand it) made up their own Miraphone models as specific permutations of the available options. The student versions had less nickel silver and had maybe S-links. The funny thing is that the student models may have been more vulnerable to wear and damage, but their playing may have been more responsive, as brass is less stiff than nickel silver. Only FF may be a problem, as the purpose of the nickel silver garland is to control excessive vibrations of the bell rim area.

Klaus

[tbn.al]

The student versions had less nickel silver and had maybe S-links. The funny thing is that the student models may have been more vulnerable to wear and damage, but their playing may have been more responsive, as brass is less stiff than nickel silver. Only FF may be a problem, as the purpose of the nickel silver garland is to control excessive vibrations of the bell rim area.

Klaus

So....What does the S designation mean? Student? S-link? or both. I always thought it was to designate a less ornate, less optioned, less expensive, entry model for students, who might mot be able to afford a pro horn.

My Miraphone has S links and bell garland.

[The Big Ben]

Yes, as said in my previous posting there were options for either S- or straight links. The former were considered low end and the latter as high end. New S-links are quiet, but worn S-links can only be adjusted by drilling the holes and then using larger gauge screws. The ball & socket links may be adjusted by a screwdriver.

Oh, bummer. I just bought an older 186 with S-links. Hope they aren't worn out. I've never looked a how a S-link was designed. I figured that there would be a brass/bronze bushing in the link and, if worn, the bushing (and maybe the stainless steel pin but probably not) would be replaced and I would be good to go... I bought with only pictures seen and am picking it up on Saturday. It's a split bell model.

[Dan Schultz]

.... The straight links with their variantions on the Ball & Socket principle are lifted above the cranks so that they will not prevent the needed 180° of rotation.....

Hey, Klaus! Don't know what sort of rotary valves you have over there. But ours here in the US only rotate 90 degrees.

[imperialbari]

Error has been corrected, sorry!

Klaus

[Dan Schultz]

..... I just bought an older 186 with S-links. Hope they aren't worn out. .....

Those older 'S' links are quite robust and rarely wear out to the point where they can't be revived through simple means. I do not like 'adjustment screws' because if they can be adjusted, they can also become unadjusted. Properly cared for 'S' links will serve you a lot longer than some of the newer types of couplings. If the rotors are noisy on the horn you are about to receive, the first thing to look for will be loose stop arms, loose bumper plates, hardened (or missing) bumpers, or too much end play in the rotors themselves. The only point that may require service is where the 'S' link attaches to the stop arm... and that's an easy fix. Now... if the linkage assembly has been damaged due to neglect or is bent, that's a different story. At any rate, parts are still available. In short... don't be too hasty to blame valve noise on the 'S' arms.

[Dan Schultz]

Error has been corrected, sorry!

Klaus

No need to apologize. It's not often you make a mistake.

[The Big Ben]

..... I just bought an older 186 with S-links. Hope they aren't worn out. .....

Those older 'S' links are quite robust and rarely wear out to the point where they can't be revived through simple means. I do not like 'adjustment screws' because if they can be adjusted, they can also become unadjusted. Properly cared for 'S' links will serve you a lot longer than some of the newer types of couplings. If the rotors are noisy on the horn you are about to receive, the first thing to look for will be loose stop arms, loose bumper plates, hardened (or missing) bumpers, or too much end play in the rotors themselves. The only point that may require service is where the 'S' link attaches to the stop arm... and that's an easy fix. Now... if the linkage assembly has been damaged due to neglect or is bent, that's a different story. At any rate, parts are still available. In short... don't be too hasty to blame valve noise on the 'S' arms.

Thanks, Dan! I didn't (and don't) look at S-links as some do but, if someone is willing to charge less for a horn because it has S-links, I have no problem with that! Good to know about simple fixes.

Jeff "Wallet squeaks when opened" Benedict

[Rick Denney]

Yes, as said in my previous posting there were options for either S- or straight links.

I'm not sure this was true in the U.S. market, though I don't doubt your recollection of the European market. The S certainly did not stand for "S links". My late 70's 186 (which I acquired in 1991) had ball-and-socket links with the horrible white plastic nylon sockets. I'd much rather have S links than those things (but I would rather still have Du-Bro ball ends that I installed). At that time, all Miraphones were marketed as having the ball-and-socket linkages, and I don't recall that the "S" models ever had S links while the "Pro" models did not.

I think TubaRay's Miraphone, which I seem to recall that he bought new in the early 70's, had S links, while my late 70's model didn't. So, the switch away from S links for U.S.-marketed models happened at some point in the middle 70's.

I seem to recall that the S-186 models showed up later, perhaps in the early 80's. By that time, even budget-model rotary tubas often had ball-and-socket linkages. The "Sanders"-labeled Cerveny that I bought in 1984 had cheapie ball-and-socket linkages that I think were installed ex-factory, possibly by (and certainly for) Custom Music. They were too light to be durable, and I replaced them something more robust. My B&S F tuba, which predates the Parantucci designations, has clocksprings, but the linkages had ball ends on one end.

I was told at the time (early 80's) that the "S" stood for "student", and denoted instruments specifically designed for a lower price point by leaving off some of of the appearance details of the "Pro" model. But I think my source for that description came from the one Miraphone dealer I discussed it with in detail--this funky Memphis shop that used to have an ad in the TUBA Journal that comprised a sideways picture of a Miraphone 188. He sounded pretty authoritative at the time, and maybe that will help answer Joe's question. I know it was 1984, because I had that discussion right before buying the Cerveny (the Miraphone, even the S version, was too expensive for me at the time).

Rick "enjoying the circularity of it all" Denney

[imperialbari]

When I read bilingual catalogues, I invariably read the original language if at all possible. And I haven’t been immensely interested in the odd US numbering systems for European makes (Mira, Hirshy).

I have tried to make the best out the limited file size for .jpg’s of the 4 graphic pages about rotary tubas from a Miraphone catalogue from around 1993. The 3rd page best illustrates the modular model approach also known from B&S.

I will see, if I can make something readable out of the spread with specs, which makes the German and The American numbering systems comparable. Those wanting high res .pdf versions will know about my huge galleries (5000+ entries) of brass related photos and scans.

1993MiraRotTubaCatPages#1LowRes.jpg

1993MiraRotTubaCatPages#2LowRes.jpg

2 more in the next posting

Klaus

[imperialbari]

Two more:

1993MiraRotTubaCatPages#3LowRes.jpg

1993MiraRotTubaCatPages#4LowRes.jpg